Thoughts on the 4-5-1?

Discussion in 'Portland Timbers' started by Scoey, Jul 12, 2011.

  1. Scoey

    Scoey Member

    Oct 1, 1999
    Portland
    Anybody care to share their thoughts on the 4-5-1 we played on Sunday? I liked it -- thought we looked much more fluid in building from the back and through the midfield. I liked Chara pushed up higher -- he played a very nice game and linked well with Nagbe/Khalif/Jorge.

    Oddly, I was worried that it would cause us to get burned on the flanks by the wingers, which didn't really seem to happen -- most of the space and chances seemed to come through the center of the park (to my drunken eyes in 220). I hope Spencer gives it a run in a few more games. Its worth sticking with.
     
  2. Kejsare

    Kejsare Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Mar 10, 2010
    Virginia
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  3. The Marquis

    The Marquis Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2007
    Washougal, WA
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Seemed effective to me... with Perlaza in.
     
  4. westcoast ape

    westcoast ape Member+

    Nov 27, 2000
    Portland, OR
    Not entilrely sure yet. Seemed like we had a good bit more of the possession than we previously enjoyed, but that trait has been improving for some weeks now.

    At the same time, they had quite a few dangerous opportunities, even in the first half. And I disagree with you about not getting burned on the flanks. Rosales torched us, Fernandez torched us, they had a 1v1 vs Perkins come in from the flank, and then Levesque also came in from outside on a 1v1 but opted to center that ball.

    What this formation does do is allow Chara to play a bit more with Perlaza and contribute more to the attack. He is quick, and he has skill, but I can't point to a lot of things that he did, or suggest that he could, to help us get a goal.

    I'd still like to see Nagbe start up front with Perlaza, and put Zizzo in the midfield starting role.
     
  5. Dignan23

    Dignan23 Member+

    Jul 6, 2001
    Fort Vancouver, WA
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Who would you send to the bench when you bring in Zizzo as a starter?
     
  6. DaveH

    DaveH Member

    Jun 10, 2004
    Jewsbury
     
  7. Scoey

    Scoey Member

    Oct 1, 1999
    Portland
    Are you being tongue-in-cheek?
     
  8. DaveH

    DaveH Member

    Jun 10, 2004
    Nope. Marcelin is covering passing lanes and gets stuck in more. Chara is better at keeping his head up and moving forward. Since moving to a 4-5-1, Jewsbury has been watching the play develop around him without being able to stamp his mark on it*. That's bad for a regular player, but especially dire for your captain.

    *-exempting obviously his set piece play. Take away PKs and FKs and you reduce his goals by half and his assists by 2/3rds.

    Here's a formation to think over: 4-5-1 that's arranged like a 4-1-1-3-1. Marcelin sitting in front of the back four, Chara in front of him playing the Dax Mccarty role of harrassing and creating mismatches, and Nagbe behind Perlaza with Alhassan and Zizzo on either side. Each of those players are arguably playing in their strongest positions. Nagbe gets a free role and a chance to be that attacking midfielder everyone thinks we need to make a signing to get. Marcelin gets to be a pure DM with an outlet in Chara who has the vision to make things happen from deep. Zizzo gets a chance to crack the starting XI and see if he can maintain for 90.
     
  9. Scoey

    Scoey Member

    Oct 1, 1999
    Portland
    This is not pure lunacy. Except I don't love Zizzo -- seems to get caught upfield too often leaving acres of space behind him. The problem with taking out Jack is he is one of the few players on this team that seems to know what it takes as a professional to go for 90 minutes.
     
  10. westcoast ape

    westcoast ape Member+

    Nov 27, 2000
    Portland, OR
    Can Jack play left back? I think he's played on the left side of the field before in KC, but I wonder a bit about how he might do for us if we moved him into the defense in place of Rodney Wallace.

    All predicated on either getting another midfielder or adopting one of the above hypothetical formations.
     
  11. Emile

    Emile Member

    Oct 24, 2001
    dead in a ditch
    The problem with moving Jack anywhere or off the field, is that his shooting ability is the team's primary (only?) non-set-piece offensive weapon. He needs to be at the top of the box to clean things up - Chara has not shown he can do this - Nagbe can I guess, so moving him centrally if Jack came out. Maybe they should switch positions but I'm not sure Jack has enough legs to play as a wing anymore.

    I like the 4-5-1. I think Spencer waited about 3-4 games too long to get Marcelin back on the field, although I expected a 4-4-2 with Jack or Chara sitting down. Neither Jack or Chara are great tacklers, so neither one had the confidence in the other to move up the field. Seeing Chara now get into an advanced position is nice, although I still don't see him as a written-in-ink starter. But at least I don't have to watch him ineffectually chase after the other team in our half while they flick him off like a flea.

    I like Perlaza, and wish he could do well, but his runs are too predictable and he can't shoot. Cooper must really be a prick to be benched in favor of him. Oh I wish we had Hassli. In this 4-5-1, I would think a forward who can hold the ball would be a lot more useful than a speed forward.

    I haven't seen a thing from Zizzo to make me think he should be starting.
     
  12. Andrew Jackson

    May 24, 2010
    Oxford, Miss.
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    You can't play a 4-5-1 on a 70 foot wide pitch, there isn't enough space. The timbers went back to a 4-4-2 and won.

    Also, Zizzo is much better than Al Hassan. At least at this point in their careers.
     

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