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Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by zverskiy yobar, Dec 14, 2005.
Can we just revoke the no assasination clause right now?
Iranian Facist Opens big mouth again
ther Islamic-Nazi connection
Definitely time to turn up the heat on this guy. Preferably with a strong international coalition through the UN.
Moderates in Iran who maybe able to mobalize need to get the message that this guy, together with the Ayatollahs are leading them down a very bad and dangerous path.
C'mon IM, let's hear it.
Raise your hand if you knew that Mel Gibson's dad was President of Iran.
...Where's Iranian Monitor when you need him ?? I could do with reading this two pages of back tracking about the peacful, lovely Iranians on this one....
Iran invented racism.
Let's guess what IM will say when he does show up:
2) Scholars differ on whether it was 6 or 5 million jews killed, so it may never have happened
3) He was trapped into saying it by a jewish reporter
4) Yes, but your idiot Bush is worse
5) But he laughs at Henny Youngman jokes (take my wife, please)
6) But Iranian babes are hot! And I've got all of them wanting my jombrowski.
This site is utter crap
If you believe this, then dont light a fire and burn Santa
I believe Ahmadinejad is misinformed in his understanding of the Holocaust, but I don't believe being wrong on a historical matter is -- or should be -- regarded as some sort of a blasphemy. In that sense, and relating specifically to his critique of those European states which criminalize revisionist views regarding the Holocaust, I find myself in agreement with him.
At the same time, I disagree with him that the Holocaust was a legend or myth. Indeed, I do wish that there was a better education regarding the Holocaust in Iran. Regardless, I don't think Iran's anti-Zionist position should ever get mixed up with comments about the Holocaust. The former position is quite defensible and indeed the contrary positions lack merit. The latter position merely detracts from the merit of the real arguments against Israel and Zionism.
Thanks for chiming in. I always appreciate your point of view on these issues.
I'm not sure I agree with the entirety of your post, however, I would note that being wrong on a historical matter is close to being unforgivable when you are the President of a nation, particularly one like Iran that does not have good relations with Israel.
People like us have the ability to spout incorrect info to our hearts delight, and suffer nothing more than a little chiding by others. A president does it, and it is immediately given significant weight by many. Given the tensions in the world these days, I am thinking that this was a calculated statement to rile up and show support for people that are quite frankly the enemy of the United States, in addition to being the enemy of Israel.
Such carelessness with language and historical facts in not blasphemy, but it is politically dangerous and irresponsible. You have correctly pointed out that current policy shouldn't be connected or driven by the Holocaust, but it is Ahmadinejad who is now making the connection.
1. "being wrong on a historical matter" - I think it goes a little deeper than this.
2. This isn't some taxi driver in Tehran spouting this nonsense, it's the president of your country
This is equally as crazy as the nutter from Iran that made the statement in question. Come on now.
I clicked on most of the end-notes from that site... the vast majority were dead links or went to sites like www.tabloid.net . I think I would need a compelling argument to convince it was worth wasting more of my time to read further.
6 million dead Jews would disagree....
The man's crazy! Another nail in his coffin perhaps?
Makes me feel good about this though.........
In kinda related news, The Iranian National team were meant to be playing English Championship side Millwall in a friendly last summer. The game was (probably rightly) called off but not before the Milwall fans had time to compose a few chants for the oposition (according to the Sunday Times):
''You're Shi'ite, and you know you are''
''You're next, and you know you are''
and best of all
''Get you face out for the lads'' Directed at any female Iranians in the crowd
Poor taste? Yeah sure, but still
Understatement of the year. This is like the guy who claims to be Napoleon being wrong on genealogy. The troublesome part is, there are more of these nuts in Iran than you can shake a stick at. Not to mention the rest of the middle east.
Bravo IM, your last post was breathtaking.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
That pop culture reference might fly over your head, but there are certain matters of fact and history that cannot be brushed over or disputed, the Holocaust is one of them. For the leader of a nation to come out and deny something with so much evidence to the contrary undermines his entire platform. He lacks any credibility. Sure, Iran isn't creating a nuclear weapon. We believe you.
It's the equivalent of saying the South won the Civil War. There are still some idiots who believe that, but they live in trailer parks and mate with their cousins. The Iranian president shares much in common with them.
Somewhere in the range of 50-60 million deaths resulted from WWII, but 6 million of those deaths are more significant than the rest.
Something tells me you'd see a difference if it had been 6 million Iranian civilians.
On a personal level, of course a death is a death. The family of a civilian killed in Dresden will be just as devastated as the family of an innocent who died in Dachau.
But, on a historical level, are you telling me you can't see the difference between indiscriminant deaths that occur in a war, and the deliberate extermination of people based soley on their ethnicity?
It turns out 6 million jews weren't slaughtered by an antisemitic madman, and you're all kvetching about this good news?
Jeeeeezzz...way to live up to a stereotype.
(BTW - perhaps the Iranians would be a bit more believable if instead of denying the holocaust, they put "The holocaust was one of many theories..." stickers on their history textbooks?)
There is no one "Iranian" viewpoint on the Holocaust. Not even "one government" position relating to that issue. Various viewpoints about these issues are regularly expressed here. Among them I admit that some do emphasize and give wide coverage to revisionist historians persecuted in Europe for presenting different viewpoints regarding the Holocaust than the prevailing one in the West.
Nonetheless, and in general, I am not aware of any serious Iranian who doubts or denies that millions of Jews died during WWII. I don't think Ahmadinejad denies that either, although his choice of words leave him vulnerable to that criticism. The real "debate" I have seen on state television programs here focuses on other issues, including whether those who perished in the "gas chambers" were already dead from other causes or whether they were gassed to death? I am personally not interested in the specific of that position nor expert enough about it to pass judgment on it. The one part of their argument I find correct is the one that criticizes laws in some European countries that penalize revisionist accounts regarding the Holocaust. I don't believe even "bad history" should be subject to criminal punishment, while there are several noted historians in Europe that have faced charges and been imprisoned for "denying the Holocaust".
I don't even know where to start...
You guys elected a dude who's not even considered "serious?"
You know, except for the fact that he said so.
You know, because of the fact that he said so.
I tend to agree with this, although I do think there is room in society for criminal laws related to hate speech. So, in my mind, there would have to be more than spewing nonsense historical inaccuracies to qualify as criminal.
I think that freedom to say stupid things will in turn help to expose idiots who can be potentially dangerous.
As an example, David Duke actually had some people (not enough thank God) hoodwinked when he put on his suit and hit the campaign stump. Fortunately, he spoke his mind in his earlier "career" so that sane people could see through his act.
Somewhat related, I think that this is an issue with the whole PC thing. I would rather know what someone truly thinks and risk a few people getting their feelings hurt.