So the University of Cincinnati disbanded their men's soccer program this week. My son didn't have plans for playing for them and had never been to one of their camps. But only being 90 minutes away it hit home for me. What's the future of men's college soccer? Is this a "one off" or the beginning of a trend? There are those who will say "doing away with men's college soccer is a good thing" (I even read an article on it. They think it will help MLS and MNT. To them, I say "what about the kids who aren't good enough to go pro or NT?" At this point in his life (sophomore in HS), DS's goal in picking a college is one he can play soccer at. And while his mother and I hope for a scholarship, we're not counting on it. But I do wonder if schools continue to drop soccer, will he look at college classes as a chore as opposed to something he needs to do in order to play? Anyway, just random ramblings on a Sunday morning.
I have a HS freshman who wants to play somewhere and, yeah, I fear he'll be looking at a greatly changed landscape with a lot fewer options. Not to assume the worst, but this almost certainly won't be the last. And if you don't have a college football season this fall at the DI level, the revenue picture for those schools will be a whole lot different going forward. I'm curious about the financial impact of no football or a diminished version of the 2020 football season on schools that play football at the FBS level (the old I-AA, where TV contracts aren't as much of a factor), as well as DII, DIII, ... Anyone out there know enough to weigh in?
The fact that D1 schools are allowed 85 scholarships for football is obscene. That is the number one reason colleges are dropping sports like soccer and others. The other is Title 9, but no women's sports have anything close to that amount of scholarships. Heck, an NFL team only has 53 players. Why on earth would a college football team need 32 more players (plus walk-ons)? Complete stupidity.
Unfortunately you're right, this won't be the last program (since Cincy, DII St. Edwards in Texas has already cut 6 programs, including men's soccer, under the guise of COVID-19). However, a LOT can happen in three years. Who the heck knows how many programs will be cut, suspended, or reborn by the time he is ready for college. My advice would be to stay the course...keep playing, keep improving, and most importantly keep enjoying the game. If he isn't happy playing the game, the number of Varsity programs available is a moot point. Also, encourage your son to choose the best school for his education and make soccer just one of the many factors in this decision, not the primary factor. I guarantee there will be opportunities for him to play soccer, wherever he goes. Club, intramural, local men's leagues, etc....it might just not be at a Varsity level.
I disagree. D1 football and basketball pay for the other sports. They've had 85 scholarships for decades now. I find it hard to believe that's why they would decide now to eliminate other sports.
Thanks for that. This is good advice under any circumstances. I had a conversation over the weekend with someone who coaches on a much lower level than DI in college who was optimistic because that program runs on a thin shoestring to begin with, so cutting it wouldn't help much. Sam Gordon's comment above on football and basketball paying the bills in (most) DI college sports is accurate, due to TV money, ticket sales, and donations. The Big Ten, for one, paid each of its 14 schools $54 million from media rights last year. I think that's probably the highest payout among the conferences.
Those 85 scholarships have to be matched in women's sports, of which zero pay for themselves. They have to do it though, so other sports need to get axed sometimes for financial reasons. First on chopping block would be the men's sports that don't make money. Cincinnati is not big time football, so it's not like their football program makes enough to cover everyone else like a LSU or FSU. People forget that not only does football make the most money, it also consumes the most money to keep running.
Forgot to mention that Covid just gives cover for these institutions to do things they've been wanting to do for a while. It's not like they said "uh oh, we have a terrible disease out there, better get rid of soccer". They now have something to blame it on and thus get less backlash. Corporations are doing the same thing with layoffs. They have cover to get rid of a lot of dead weight now.
Just to clarify or ask if somebofy is more familiar - Do non Power 5 football programs actually make a positive revenue for schools? All the posts above say that football "funds" the other sports, and while this is true for power 5 (and Notre Dame) I do not believe fottball prgrams at mid and small D1 schools actually make a positive revenue contribution.
Good point. Above, I'm thinking almost entirely about the Power 5 when talking about major sports funding others. I just looked at my alma mater -- DI and decidedly not Power 5 (and it ended its successful men's soccer program long, long ago) -- and ticket sales and media rights provide about a fifth of the athletics budget. Close to 70 percent comes from student fees and unspecified "school funds."
While no doubt some of this is happening or will, the financial projections universities are looking at (much like businesses) are genuinely scary. There is a near-term future where they're almost certainly going to have significantly less revenue to work with. And if there's no fall football season, Power 5 athletics budgets are going to be hit hard. If your sport doesn't generate revenue, the target on your back gets a little bigger. And yeah, it's legally easier to cut a men's sport than a women's sport. Kind of a sidenote: The Washington Post has a story today on the NCAA and its member universities deciding several years ago to spend down most of the fund set aside to mitigate any cancellation of March Madness, apparently worried that having that cash on hand made the NCAA a bigger target for lawsuits. The NCAA still has a rainy-day fund, but not nearly as much as it did a few years ago.
Related to that last post on possible cuts ahead. Some schools are also mothballing plans for growth areas (hockey is a revenue-generating sport at at least some schools, isn't it?): https://www.startribune.com/report-...on-hold-during-coronavirus-fallout/569800992/
One more I saw, one of the smaller universities closing entirely (they played DII soccer): https://www.dispatch.com/news/20200...-due-to-coronavirus-challenges-low-enrollment For the past couple of years I've gotten soccer-camp emails from them.
I've recently been rewatching The West Wing. I don't remember the episode or why it came up, but football scholarships were being discussed. Donna said something like... "with 85 scholarships, that's more than three people at every position. When you get down the third and fourth string, couldn't the third string left outside linebacker also be the third string right outside linebacker?" I thought it was a good point. And it's not like you can't have walk ons.
If you haven't seen this, it's worth a look. DI college soccer coaches pleading with the NCAA not to agree to a request from most of the DI conferences to, among other things, lower the requirements on how many sports a school must sponsor to maintain DI status. https://www.socceramerica.com/publi...aign=23593&hashid=ixRRGmPgZM7Iow0TP7RjqShyNPU
Title IX enforcement is the real problem...the way its interpreted is just silly, given that there is no equivalent of football in women's sports. The more reasonable expectation should be opportunities based on a sport-by-sport basis; if you field Men's Soccer, you field Women's Soccer. Simple, easy, fair. I have long felt that D1 schools should start Womens' Football programs, then shitcan a ton of women's non-revenue sports as is happening on the Men's side. So long as its equal there cannot be any bitching and complaining, or so I'm told.
You get three free articles if you register with your email address (speaking on behalf of the cheap everywhere).
No, I was just being an asshole to make a cheap point. That said, if we truly believe in the value of non-revenue sports, the best way to expand their competition would be to approach Title IX in the way I described, by balancing like metrics. That would revive some Men's programs.
Except men are not the protected class. Title IX does not exist to service men and/or men's programs; society does that by default already (hence the need for equality legislation). And you do realize that Title IX doesn't function based on a 50/50 split, right? Opportunities and funding need to be approximately proportionate to the gender breakdown at the college/university, which makes things a bit more complicated than simply funding both men and women for every sport.
This is largely wrong, sorry. It's talked about way too much. In the case of UC, they had a $800,000 men's soccer budget. The total athletic budget was over $64m and they have ran an over $30m deficit each year for the last 3 years. If football and basketball are paying for things, there wouldn't be a $30m deficit in 22 sports (I believe is what UC sponsors). Most schools "lose" money in athletics. Even in Power 5, expenses are vast and no one is thinking reasonably with creating budgets. Unfortunately, there have been 13 men's soccer programs lost in 2020 alone -- of which 5 are due to the school closing. In 2019, there were 9 more that were lost -- these were all due to the school closing (2 of them had mergers with larger campuses, 1 actually closed then reopened in August). The 2019 and 2020 years have been the worst for men's soccer than any other years. Just in 2020, taking out the 5 schools that have closed, it's still the worst year to date (nearly). Sure, schools have added soccer and it's come at decent numbers. But, they aren't being added at the rate that they are being eliminated, nor are they being added at schools that have the "prestige" of those who have eliminated. The last DI program to add soccer was in 2014 (Utah Valley), there have been 4 DI programs cut since 2014. There have been three DII programs to add men's soccer since 2014, there have been 10 DII programs lost in the same span.
Good point about intramural. Cincy will I'm sure have a strong intramural or club team. If the kid lives in Ohio then they'll get in-state tuition which is affordable.
They already have 65+ guys on their men’s club team. It’s not like that “adds” to the school though. Kids are already there then play. In fact, that team could get worse because they’ve always relied on some of the UC players to boost their roster.
I don't know how it works, but if they have that many players then they should have several teams, not just one. They could play against nearby teams like Univ of Dayton. Or maybe try to find some way to scrimmage the pro team there. If that doesn't work then they just have to find another school. Many schools in Ohio and the midwest.