Third DP?

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by Heist, Nov 22, 2009.

  1. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    According to the Guardian:

    "Clubs can also trade for a second "overpaid" designated player, and now they are about to change the rules to allow for a third."

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/nov/22/david-beckham-football-america

    I hadn't heard this rumor before. Does anyone know if its seriously being discussed or if this guys is just making stuff up?

    Overall it was a generally positive article about MLS too.
     
  2. lkgf09

    lkgf09 Member

    Jun 7, 2004
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't see the point. Have fun fitting three DP's under the salary cap. The only way this happens is if the DP's don't count against the cap at all.
     
  3. PhillyMLS

    PhillyMLS Member+

    Oct 24, 2000
    SE PA
    Or the cap goes up of course.
     
  4. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    You wouldn't have to go that far. One possible compromise that I'd thought of is to pay DPs the salary of the average non-DP starter (set a minutes cutoff, say 2000 minutes or something) from the previous season. My guess is that would be somewhere in the high 100s, or possibly low 200s.

    I should say, though, that the info seems to come from Tim Lieweke, who has been known to get ahead of himself before.
     
  5. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Didn't LA have three DP's at one point? Beckham........and the grandfathered Donovan and Ruiz? In 2008? The outcome was one of the worst teams in recent MLS memory. Two good players, one fat-overpaid crybaby......and no defenders.

    They'd have to change the salary cap to make it work.....which is possible.
     
  6. deron

    deron New Member

    Jul 25, 2006
    Centennial, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If they do this, it might force every team to have at least one DP out of competitive necessity. Assuming teams don't squander their DP's, which is just as likely.
     
  7. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    Which is what I had assumed most of the small, and even frankly midsize, markets didn't want. Lieweke speaks from the point of view of a big-market team, and although he might have the votes of NY, Seattle, and Toronto with him, I'm not sure on this issue if he has anyone else.
     
  8. sakibomb523

    sakibomb523 Member+

    Oct 13, 2009
    Orange County
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Robert Kraft would cry if this happens. It says a lot of players will be coming after the World Cup. oh the suspense
     
  9. vmax71

    vmax71 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 11, 2002
    high desert
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Grant Wahl mentioned it in his twitter page:

    http://twitter.com/Grantwahl

    Leiweke to Guardian: Beckham Rule changing to allow 3 DPs per MLS team. Big-name stars coming after World Cup. http://tinyurl.com/y9unfak
    about 5 hours ago from web

    I am cautiously optimistic that if used properly, this will allow MLS teams to make a dent in the concacaf champions league sooner rather than later (the competition that I value most)
     
  10. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    Aug 1, 2007
    Good, so MLS team wont need to spend money and scout 3rd division 27-year olds who only have "expierance"..and instead give more minutes to American 18-19 year olds. Since, with more better players on the team..........you can afford to test out a few optimistic American Youth.
     
  11. BSGuy321

    BSGuy321 Member

    Sep 2, 2008
    Sounds great
     
  12. triplet1

    triplet1 BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 25, 2006
    As a compromise, it might make some sense though. If there is some hesitiancy to simply spend more money on the entire roster, allowing more targeted investment on star players which is voluntary could avoid a showdown between owners on the larger cap. Besides, we don't really know how many slots they will approve -- if this report is accurate my guess is each team will be give 2 slots and they can trade for a 3rd -- so we might not see that much change in competitive balance. A fair number of slots could still go unused.

    As further evidience that "star power" is on the radar, Garber's response in the recent Wahl interview about increasing the cap was interesting: "The only way the salary cap could go up would be in the context of a renewed CBA. And there's no doubt in anyone's mind that in order to grow the popularity of this league we need to improve our quality, we need to have more star players."

    Again, that sounds like more DPs to me.


    Link: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/grant_wahl/11/19/garber.qa/1.html#ixzz0XdCjZALI
     
  13. BSGuy321

    BSGuy321 Member

    Sep 2, 2008
    "Outside of South Africa, No 1 ticket buyer in the world for the World Cup? United States. Bigger than England and Germany combined.

    No 1 rights payment for the World Cup? United States.

    More registered players than anywhere in the world? United States.

    We don't get ratings or rights payments for our league or national team that Man United or the Premier League get. But it will take some time and I think it will make some progress."
     
  14. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    How many DPs total per team do we have to get to before "designated" losses all (or most of) its meaning.

    because, imo, that's were the league should be going with this (in the many years to come).
     
  15. Dirt McGirt

    Dirt McGirt Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Phoenix, AZ
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Does anybody else feeling like this league is going to explode in popularity in a few years? I can't help but noticel a buzz about the league in the MSM that I haven't felt before. If this 3 dp thing is true we might see a big bump in attendance and ratings in the next few years.
     
  16. CbR

    CbR Member

    Nov 10, 2000
    Bergen County NJ
    thats what i assume it might be too Triplet1. 2 slots +1 acquired via trade. if thats the case NY will have 3 since they have Chivas' Dp from the Amado trade a few years back.

    personally i dont think this will piss off Kraft or Kronkie (sp) since they dont care about winning championships. When NY, Toronto, LA, Chivas, Seattle come to town they'll sell that many more tickets for the smaller teams. When the revenue sharing from the new TV contracts are paid out... the smaller teams will see greater returns b/c more ppl will tune in for better quality.

    Dp's dont have to be 5 million dollar players ....they could be 600-700k too ya know.
     
  17. Prazan

    Prazan New Member

    Aug 28, 2006
    Prague
    I am becoming more convinced that this will be the compromise between the owners that want to spend more and those that don't. If you make a significant hike in the salary cap, then Kraft, the Hunts, etc. have to spend more, which they don't want to do. If you allow an extra DP per team (with some sort of salary cap allowance to allow teams to actually use them - for example making the 2nd or 3rd DP only count as $200K against the cap or something similar), then they don't have to spend anything more while the freer spending teams can.

    That could affect the competitive balance, of course, so why would the cheaper owners agree? Besides the fact that the owners will have to find some compromise that they can all live with, as mentioned the cheap owners will make money when those other team DPs come to their stadium. I don't recall Kraft being upset when crowds came to see Beckham or Blanco at Gillette. He also would make more money if Henry/Viera/Palermo/etc. came to town a couple of times per year. They could also trade those extra DP slots if they didn't plan to use them, of course.

    There is another reason that extra DPs might make more sense to the owners rather than a large hike to the cap. The logic behind raising the cap is the theory that improving the quality of play will make the league more popular (I strongly agree, but it is a debatable point). Well, if you double the salary cap but just end up doubling everyone's salary, all the owners will have done is given money away to the players without improving the league. A smaller hike to the cap with up to 16 new DPs could keep the existing salaries close to where they are while still raising the quality of play and the "star power" of the league.

    My own preference would be to just raise the cap and be more transparent, but I think this would still be a step in the right direction.
     
  18. RapidStorm

    RapidStorm Member+

    Jan 30, 2005
    Denver, CO
    I might be alone in this, but I still think that experiment in LA could have worked if LA hadn't wasted money on Pires, Vanney and Xavier, and if Ciaran O'Brien (god bless him) hadn't cracked Ruiz in the first game of the year.

    I mean, I don't know how the salary cap numbers work at the moment, but aren't Gonzalez, DeLaGarza and Berhalter making significantly less than Pires, Xavier, and Vanney? Enough that LA could have still afforded Ruiz?

    To admit, it's pure idle speculation, because without finishing as poorly as they did the last two years, LA could have never picked Omar or DeLaGarza, or likely been high enough on the allocation list to get Berhalter.
     
  19. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    One of the thoughts I had was that part of the idea here would be keeping Donovan, who was always the closest thing we had to a legit home-grown 'star' and whose profile has only been growing over the last year or two.
     
  20. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    Aug 1, 2007

    But do we know if thats all Americans?

    If its at least half. thats oustanding considering we could have 40,000- 50,000 US fans togther if we do happen to play in the bigger stadiums.
     
  21. westcoast ape

    westcoast ape Member+

    Nov 27, 2000
    Portland, OR

    This was also my first thought. Didn't Garber say something the other day about hoping that Donovan has an important connection to the league in the coming years? AS much as Donovan might want to go elsewhere, I also think that part of his desire comes from the desire to be treated on par with his performance, which has had a far more significant impact than just about any DP in the league.
     
  22. westcoast ape

    westcoast ape Member+

    Nov 27, 2000
    Portland, OR
    Another reason that allowing for another DP is that it addresses the problem of quality, specifically "star" quality, on the field, without getting caught up in non-beneficial wage inflation that might occur with any significant increase to the salary cap.

    The owners are, to some extent, right - there is no sense paying more for the same product they already have. Any reasonable increment is not going to substantially impact actual performance on the field, outside of some ancillary benefit that might accrue from having players who are slightly more content with their 5-15% increase in pay. Doubling the salary cap might have some impact, but you'll still end up just acquiring slightly better South Americans than the ones we're getting now.

    But by allowing for a DP owners are free to go out and get a star who can really have an effect on the gates. I think MLS might be learning something from the "Summer of Soccer" - there is a massive audience that is out there waiting for quality soccer. If each team is able to field two or three Schelottos or Blancos or Beckhams or Henrys, it will really make a huge difference. Now, if their salaries count substantially against the cap, that will be a huge problem, because a team with two or three DPs will be left with only about $1M to pay the entire remainder of the team, which would be disastrous. So, yes, I think there should be some hit on the salary cap, but $415/$350 is probably too much.
     
  23. lala1174

    lala1174 Member

    May 11, 2008
    Las Vegas
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ofcourse they are all Americans. To apply for tickets for South Africa you must have a US address.
     
  24. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think they meant if they are all fans of the US National team.
    Also, people can have addresses in the US and not be Americans.
     
  25. triplet1

    triplet1 BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 25, 2006
    I think that's exactly right. Even if the cap jumped significantly, it would take awhile to find a league full of better players worthy of those higher salaries -- or they'd just end up paying the current guys a lot more. This would allow them to target the money more specifically.
     

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