Things we See

Discussion in 'Referee' started by DefRef, Jun 17, 2019.

  1. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    Oof. First time with a flag in a state tourney. What could go wrong...
     
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  2. Barciur

    Barciur Member+

    Apr 25, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    At least we "only" give ours whistles! :whistling:
     
  3. Sam_C

    Sam_C Member

    Manchester City
    Brazil
    Jun 19, 2018
    I know there's a lot of love for center circle refs here...
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    The perfect storm?
     
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  5. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also known as “the donut”. :)
     
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  6. davidjd

    davidjd Member+

    Jun 30, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The 'donut hole' refs. Often there is a good correlation between that type of heat map and a diet.
     
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  7. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    Some ref-coach or assessor somewhere along the way did that to this poor ref.
     
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  8. DefRef

    DefRef Member

    Jul 3, 2017
    Storrs CT
    So, I saw something today that I had never seen before. BJV game closely fought 1-0 for the home team. My partner is a college freshman with lots of youth experience, but in his first season doing HS games. He calls a foul for visitors at about 40 yds out. Ceremonial restart - gets the defensive wall set at 10 yds and after he blows the whistle, the 2 players in the wall charge forward 2-3 steps and jump and block the kick. I am the trail ref and start jogging up to card someone, but I see he is right there with the card out and now I am switching to recording who the YC is on. I see he is sending both players off (HS rules). I asked him if he was carding both players - he said they were both guilty of FRD.

    We talked about it after the game and he asked if that was correct. I told him that I could not fault his logic, but just that I have never seen it done. He then asked why we would not card them, even if they did not block the kick. Again, I can see how the rule could be interpreted that way, but it's just not done. We ended the discussion talking about how you would call attempting to strike or kick, but not attempting to FRD.

    Anyone think there is anything very wrong with carding 2 players in this situation?
     
  9. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    Two FRDs, two cards. Blocking or not blocking isn't the issue, it's the charge-and-jumps. Synchronized silliness.
     
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  10. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    It is not technically incorrect to card both encroachers. But I think most would say the better approach is to card the worse offender rather than both.
     
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  11. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    And certainly not one who is already on a caution, if you have the choice.
     
  12. MJ91

    MJ91 Member

    United States
    Jan 14, 2019
    CR, HSBV, two top-20 teams, conference tourney knock-out game.

    White attacking, sends thru-ball well past PIOSP going to GK.

    AR1 pops for OS, but GK collects the ball in PA and AR1 drops the flag and i also wave it down saying, "Play! Keeper in possession!" I never lifted nor blew the whistle.

    But then, something doesn't look right...

    Blue GK releases ball and is very casually pseudo-dribbling it out of the PA towards blue attacker, apparently to position the ball for IFK... :confused: Attacker rushes in, gets possession, but skies the shot over the open goal.

    Blue coach comes unglued... "He (AR1) called offside!!!" Their GK echos the complaints.

    Cue the standard responses... "Flag's for me, whistle's for the players. I waved it down and did not whistle to stop play. GK's normally want possession over a FK from there.", etc.
     
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  13. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    Yesterday, high school JV girls, low skilled for even JV girls. Blue throw-in, in front of her bench. She's holding the ball with both hands about head level, looking around. Then she throws the ball with one hand, like it was a giant baseball, to a nearby teammate. Okay, she wants her to take the throw instead. But the teammate chests the ball down and kicks it. The coach and I are both trying to figure out what just happened.

    I ruled that it was an attempt to give the second girl the ball for a throw-in, so do over. The coach asks another girl to take the throw-in. This time, the thrower has the ball above her head and she just drops it. Never behind her head and no motion to throw it. Okay, I've reached my limit. "White throw." Exasperated blue coach tells her player, "You have to throw it from behind your head."
     
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  14. soccerdad72

    soccerdad72 Member

    Chelsea
    United States
    Apr 5, 2021
    Son's game the other day, the opposing player runs onto the field while doing a throw-in. Ref blows whistle and gives us the throw. The player who threw it in yells over to the ref, "Why? I can't be moving?". Ref, incredulously yells back over, "No - you can't be running while throwing the ball in". I think he was taken back by even hearing the question - I don't think he expected a HS Varsity player to not know the rules on throw-ins.
     
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  15. DefRef

    DefRef Member

    Jul 3, 2017
    Storrs CT
    Middle School games are often very weird animals. Some schools in our area only use 7th and 8th graders and others go from 5th thru 8th grade. This can lead to massive differences in player size, which adds to the challenge of reffing.

    I was doing a doing a game between 2 small schools out in the boonies and as I walk into the field area, the person I thought was the coach with a bunch of minions, turned out to be a player. He was at least 6'2" and as much as 2 feet taller than some of his teammates. I was a little worried about how this was going to play out and then I saw that he was the goalie, so much less of a concern. And he very much kept his team in it with a lot of saves that were due to his height. Score is 2-2 and coach decides to put him on the field. Within 2 minutes, the other team scores 2 goals over the head of the much shorter new goalie and I'm hearing multiple kids wondering out loud why coach put him in.

    Big boy is unstoppable when he gets the ball, but does not get it very much. I'm watching much shorter players bounce off him as they try to get around him. And on defense, he just ran over a couple of kids. Not in a mean or bad way, but just due to huge difference in size and speed. He got some decent opportunities, but generally shot the ball FAR over the goal. His team lost.

    Then yesterday, I do a MS game that turns out to be a co-ed league. Each team is at least 40% girls and there are no special co-ed rules. 11v11 game and the field is one of those horrible 120 yds by maybe 40 yds wide shoehorns. So lots of running for me.

    And we still have the same disparity of size between near-men down to petite little girls. I was very pleased that I did not see any testosterone fueled macho behavior or the female equivalent from any of the big girls towards the smaller kids. Both teams had a couple of obvious premier players who were very skilled, but the majority were just kicking and running. A couple of girls scored goals and it was generally an enjoyable game. One of the better players had a play where he collected the ball about 30 yds out and calmly assessed the situation and blooped a beautiful shot over the head of the keeper for the goal. As he and his teammates are running back for the kickoff, I hear one of them say, "showoff".
     
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  16. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    MBB game reported in the Bad Stories thread. One of the Vietnamese players is down after a kick to his shin or ankle and he is hurting. Manager of the other team comes over and is checking his ankle and shin, so I'm guessing the guy is a doc or nurse. BIG guy. As he gets the injured player up, I'm calling the injured guy's teammates on to help him off. They don't move out of the shade, however. The injured guy has his arm around the big guy's shoulder because he's having a hard time walking. The big guy picks him up with one arm and carries the guy off the field, about 30 yards! Note to self: don't get the big guy upset with me.
     
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  17. DefRef

    DefRef Member

    Jul 3, 2017
    Storrs CT
    So this is about something I did NOT see and then something I definitely saw.

    Highly competitive BV game with lower ranked home team up 2-1 in middle of 2nd half. Visitors/white have been pressing hard ever since home scored go ahead goal. White player collects the ball as it moves towards the sideline and heads downfield towards me. I am the lead ref in dual system and right on the sideline, even with 2nd to last defender. I quickly look left to check my offside situation and I hear the visitor coach go "ohmygod" and I turn back to look to see a bunch of home coaches with their hands in the air indicating out of bounds. So I am very sure the ball went out, but I did not see it. He must have only lost control for a split second because all I see is him coming down the line inbounds. Gotta play on.

    About 10 minutes later, White is still pressing hard and getting shot after shot and running beautifully into play, past the defense from long crosses and Black is holding on for dear life. White finally connects solidly on a cross and striker has a great opportunity to score, but is slightly off center and subtly sweeps the ball into the net with his upper arm/bicep. Very few players on the field saw this as they were mostly facing the wrong way and Black thought they had been scored on, but I was looking right at it and immediately called no goal for the hand ball. Goalie even threw the ball back up for the kickoff. Heard some grumbling from White bench, but they were behind me and probably saw the same thing I did.

    Gonna try to find the video. Game ended and I am exhausted and satisfied with a job well done.
     
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  18. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    How did they react when you then cautioned the attacker for deliberately trying to score with his arm?
     
  19. DefRef

    DefRef Member

    Jul 3, 2017
    Storrs CT
    I did NOT caution. It was not flagrant at all and I'm sure it was just a instant reaction to being slightly out of position. And it was a huge game changing call, which ultimately decided who won the game. Now, if he had tried to argue the call, but he just quietly went back to his position. That's part of how I know I got it right.
     
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  20. DefRef

    DefRef Member

    Jul 3, 2017
    Storrs CT
    Dang, another thing I didn't see.

    U14B Comp game between 2 quality teams. I assigned 2 up and coming 14yr olds, but was not quite ready to put either of them on the center of this game that I expected to be intense. And of course, I could not find anyone else and ended up deciding to do the game myself.

    Home team usually wears red, but the visitors were maroon, so home team went with black. I did the typical pre-game with the "call fouls you see, but give me a chance to call anything in the box" spiel.

    Home is up 1-0 and we have a play where they are attacking and ball in pinballing around inside the 6 and keeper is way out of position and I see AR1 waving his flag. I blow whistle and not sure what he saw, but assumed it was offside or oob or something similar. I go over to talk to him and he says he saw handball. I asked him on who and he said red. My mind went, ok, on the offense and we're coming out and turned to go back out and then I realized red was the defense. Crap, he is calling a PK. I asked him if he was sure and his response was "if that's not a hand ball, I don't know what is". So I decided to trust him and pointed to the spot. A little bit of grumbling, but it was silent sideline weekend and it seemed to be affective here. Home team converts the PK to go up 2-0 and eventually won the game 2-1.

    So, this was the winning goal and I was not really happy that this call decided the game. After the game, I brought it up again and AR2 pipes up with "oh yeah, defender reached up and swatted it".

    Now I feel a lot better about the call, but have to question my eyesight.....:confused:
     
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  21. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    Sounds to me like your up and comer has upped and come!
     
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  22. DefRef

    DefRef Member

    Jul 3, 2017
    Storrs CT
    I did tell both of them that next spring, I expect both of them to be doing centers of this level. So I don't have too.....

    I rarely do youth (<U15) games anymore. If I do, it is just because I could not find someone else. I have done so many HS games lately, that in this U12 game, when the first goal was scored, I caught myself doing the X thing with my arms to stop the clock o_O
     
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  23. kayakhorn

    kayakhorn Member+

    Oct 10, 2011
    Arkansas
    #123 kayakhorn, Oct 19, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2022
    Yeah, it's always a little embarrassing to signal the clock stoppage when the only clock is on your arm. Not that I've ever done that. :rolleyes:
     
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  24. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    It's worse when your state uses all the disco signals for HS and then you brain-cramp in a USSF game and start doing ref-a-go-go!
     
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  25. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Waiting for a game today saw a young ref probably 13 coming off a little kids game with a black jersey. Said it was all they had at the soccer store. Usually we have young refs only having yellow and get annoyed when they come onto a higher level game with no other colors. This poor kid got the one jersey that hardly gets worn or even purchased
     
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