Things we See

Discussion in 'Referee' started by DefRef, Jun 17, 2019.

  1. Chaik

    Chaik Member

    Oct 18, 2001
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Long story, but fun one.

    I gave one, and only one, RC to a JV coach in my career. Myself and another veteran were sent to do a JV girls dual, and then stick around and AR the varsity game for a young CR stepping up to do her first varsity center. During the JV game, which was played at a VERY low level, the visitors are awarded an indirect kick about 30 yards from goal for PIADM. My dual partner and I both put our arms straight up, and he helpfully yells out "KEEPER, INDIRECT KICK!" Of course, the ball is kicked directly at the goal. The keeper flails at it and swats it into the goal.

    Home's coach just absolutely lost his mind (he didn't have much of one to lose, as will become apparent). "IT'S AN INDIRECT KICK!" "Yes, coach, the ball needs to be touched twice, the kicker and your goalie touched it, it's a good goal." "SHE CAN'T KICK IT AT THE GOAL!" "Why not?" "IT'S AN INDIRECT KICK!" "She can kick it wherever she wants, coach, it just can't go directly in the goal." "BUT IT'S AN INDIRECT KICK!"

    At this point, he's come about ten feet on the field, so I walk over, instruct him that he cannot be on the field, say something like "Coach, you've crossed the line with dissent, and you can't come on the field, I'm going to yellow card you, if you would like to discuss the rule after the game we can do so." Show him the YC, walk him off the field of play, turn around to re-start the game, hear him yell "THIS GUY'S A MORON!", turn back around, second YC, RC, thanks for coming.

    The discussion with him, the varsity coach, and the athletic director that he couldn't be on the bench for the varsity game was much smoother, thanks to the athletic director being capable of abstract thought.
     
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  2. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    I had a similar IFK story, except without the cards. First tournament weekend of the summer, so it's probably newly formed teams. U11G if I remember. I called an IFK in the PA, forget for what now. It was about 2-3 yards behind the PK mark, off to the side. Certainly it did not look like a PK. I at least had my arm up, probably said "Indirect". Everyone but the kicker lined up outside the box. Kicked straight to the keeper, who missed it and deflected it into the net. Goal. Afterwards the coach said I should have explained it to them. Really, whose job is that coach? (Course I didn't say that except inside my head.)

    There's a cute IFK story involving my daughter. One of her first games, probably U8 where everything was indirect. The ball went directly into the net. She knew it didn't count, but couldn't remember the restart. So she gave a retake. Talking later, I said, "Ball crossed the goal line but a goal was not scored ..." Aha, the light went on, that it should have been a goal kick.
     
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  3. Kit

    Kit Member+

    Aug 30, 1999
    Herkimer, NY, USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My unusual free kick story is on a direct free kick. U14-ish game with a direct free kick game 5 yards outside the penalty arc. Red player shot the ball at the goal. It hit the crossbar and landed right back at the kicker's feet. He shot again and I waved off the goal. I explained that a kicker cannot kick the ball twice on a free kick. His coach said that his player hadn't since it touch the crossbar. I had to explain that the crossbar doesn't count; it has to hit another player before the kicker can touch the ball again. He did accept that explanation.
     
  4. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    "While the crossbar/post might be the keeper's best friend, it isn't a player."
     
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  5. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    kinda the flip side of folks who want the IfK when the keeper saves the ball and the kicker scores, “yes. Keepers are players . . .”
     
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  6. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    I was once doing a tournament championship game, adult women. The 0-0 game went to kicks. I set them up for the first kick. The kicker says, "From here? This is too easy!" I realized that she had never played in a game with a penalty kick before. Of course, you guessed it, she missed wide. After five kicks for each team, it was 2-1.
     
  7. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    I had a first ever in a middle school game today. Corner kick, the corner taker double touched the ball. This wasn’t the first ever, I’ve had it a handful of times.

    Dual partner called the IFK coming out. The opponent came to take the IFK, and then HE double touched it. So ball goes back to the original corner kicking team, near the arc, just with an IFK instead. THAT was the first ever
     
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  8. Sharper

    Sharper Member

    Charlotte FC
    United States
    Aug 23, 2022
    Knowing most youth keepers/players don't understand an IFK, I taught the U19 team I coached to take IFKs by shooting hard at the goal, but close enough to the side of the keeper that they could get a touch on it. Scored 3 goals that way one season. The other guys I refereed with hated me as a coach for it, because they were the ones stuck explaining what happened to the opposing teams.
     
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  9. davidjd

    davidjd Member+

    Jun 30, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    3 IFK at U19 close enough to shoot? That seems really high by itself.
     
  10. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    A U19 keeper doesn’t know that?!
     
  11. AZOldRef

    AZOldRef Member

    Chelsea
    United States
    Apr 5, 2021
    Full time in U16 MLS Next, 3-1 to White. We had three or four minutes worth of injuries in the 2nd half but Red wasn't interested in stoppage time (short on players). Center blows the whistle and everybody's fine.

    Except for one player on White who says, "Hey, no added time?"
    Center says no.
    Kid says "Why no? There were injuries?" Kid is very urgent about this.
    Center says, "We're not doing added time, you won the game, let's move on."
    Kid says, "Hey ref, you've gotta do better! Do better!"
    Center can hardly believe it. "Kid - you won the game, no need for added time. This is a warning, you need to let it go."
    Kid repeats the "do better'" thing.
    Center shows the kid a yellow card.
    Now the kid is seriously unhappy and STILL won't shut up about it. Coach finally comes and pulls him away before kid earned a red card. He was darn close.

    WTH?
     
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  12. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Man you really have no shortage of refs you work with who just have terrible practices. A center ref who is at the point of doing MLS Next matches should know to disengage with any post-match confrontation like this when it's clearly going nowhere because nothing will be gained.

    All he had to say was something along the lines of "You won 3-1, your opponent is short of players, there will be nothing to gain from stoppage time and no one besides you wants it. Thank you, good game" and walk away. He starts calling for you to do better, ignore it and continue walking off. You don't continue engaging, giving him a warning and telling him to let it go, then still hang around to let him keep going, then give him a yellow card, still allow him to have you to engage with to the point that the coach has to drag him off to avoid a red card.

    A complete lack of refereeing awareness, unless he was trying to bait the player into getting a red card, which wouldn't surprise me. You really should consider giving some constructive criticism to these guys you work with.
     
  13. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    Center says, "I did. It expired." Done.

    How does a player know exactly when the ref's time is up anyway?

    Ahh, there's the problem. Kid wanted another hattrick to add to his collection. (He'd only scored 2 of the 3) /s
     
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  14. Law6

    Law6 Member

    Nov 17, 2023
    I'm with the kid, unless the losing coach was explicitly asking for no stoppage.
     
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  15. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Thats what I would actually want my question to the player to be. “What’s wrong?Not happy with your team’s win over wanting extra time to try to add to your own stats?”

    But it would get me in trouble
     
  16. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    It’s u16. The kid probably refs. At that age, it’s often about being right more than about any ulterior motive. Shrug.
     
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  17. AZOldRef

    AZOldRef Member

    Chelsea
    United States
    Apr 5, 2021
    Respectfully disagree. We were walking towards the ref tent, center was trying to disengage. Kid ran from behind us to the front. Wasn't much else to be done.
     
  18. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    The additional information provided actually makes the CR look worse.

    I would never let someone get away with telling me "Do Better". The game is over and the teen believes the referee can no longer caution or is no longer willing to and can throw in pot shots. He was right. It makes everyone else's job much harder when we have these teams next.
     
  19. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    I guess I projected then. Yeah, if he was actively walking away trying to ignore it and the player kept running after him, then screw that kid. Hell, red card him.

    No, the added info makes him look better. I was under the impression that the ref just stood there continually engaging with the player despite knowing it would do no good and the only result would likely be a red card. I understand the "don't tolerate dissent because it makes the next crew's job harder" thing that gets repeated all the time. But for me there's a difference between tolerating active dissent during the game, and then after a game ends to stand there engaging with an upset player or wanting to punish him to teach him a lesson.
     
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  20. Dayton Ref

    Dayton Ref Member+

    May 3, 2012
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I had a Next Pro scrimmage that ended the same way. Key facts:
    1) It is a professional scrimmage and no coach has ever wanted stoppage time on a professional scrimmage
    2) There was a grand total of fewer than 20 players on contract, the rest of them were academy players
    3) I was the referee (don't worry, one of the other refs showed me which end to blow into)

    Academy player after they've lost 2-1.
    "You have to add for stoppages."
    "It is a pre season scrimmage. No I don't."
    "It is in the rules you have to."
    "No I don't."
    "Learn the rules."
    "Go Away."
    The tone and body language had a teammate (also academy) come pull him away.
    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  21. espola

    espola Member+

    Feb 12, 2006
    His mom pays him $5 for every goal he scores.
     
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  22. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    Many seasons ago, I was on a crew being assessed by a VERY well known former FIFA referee, with World Cup experience. This was a PDL game. Visiting team was short players and, after some injuries, the manager had to come in to play. (Yes, he was on the roster as both manager and player, but he hadn't planned to play.) The National Referee played something like seven or eight minutes of added time in a game with IIRC a goal differential of more than five.

    The first thing the assessor said was "Why did you play seven minutes of added time?" "Well, we had all those injuries, and then had to wait for the manager to sub in...." "The game was OVER. Nothing good was going to happen in those seven minutes." QED.
     
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  23. Sharper

    Sharper Member

    Charlotte FC
    United States
    Aug 23, 2022
    3 is a lot
    It's been at least a decade, but if I recall correctly, it was a backpass to the keeper, a dangerous play outside the area, and an obstruction, but the obstruction was around 30 yards out (something like a defender really obviously blocking out our attacker off the ball). That one was a beautiful up and down dropping shot the keeper just got a hand on over his head.
     
  24. Advantage

    Advantage Member

    Apr 25, 2022
    I've always thought approaching coaching with a referee's mindset would be very interesting. This is a smart strategy, but especially at the younger age groups can you count on having a referee experienced enough to know these rules? Along these lines, I often wonder how many coaches take a look at who their AR's are for a game and scrap the idea of running the offside trap
     
  25. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    More than you think.

    When I was a full-time coach, there were isolated cases we ditched it before the match even started. It was guys I've seen before or know by their age/build that they won't be able to keep up.

    In a high school game last year (dual-system) the head coach tells the assistant "we can't keep running the trap with that guy on that side of the field". It also happened in a 3-man system match where I was AR1 and could over-hear the coaches having a similar conversation.
     
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