No need to wait until the end of Cristiano's career. People are already saying he is the greatest ever. Others say he is the most complete player ever. Most often what you will hear is that Cristiano and Messi are BOTH the two best ever to play the game. Early at United people absolutely were saying Cristiano had potential to surpass Maradona and Pele claiming he was the new and improved George Best without the social life issues to hold him back. You are far behind and stuck in the past saying "let's see if he is ranked any closer to R9." Madrid fans generally do not have R9 ahead of Zidane or Sanchez let alone Cristiano in their all-time list. I hear many people saying Cristiano is right there with Di Stefano for all-time Madrid players, I've never seen a Madrid fan put R9 there. The major reason R9 was likened to Pele is he is Brazilian. If Cristiano was Brazilian there would have been the same comparison. Cristiano being Portuguese was logically compared to Eusebio. Every Brazilian superstar coming up gets compared to being a new Pele. If you read that article that you posted in the Messi thread you would have seen that the writer said "Ronaldo and Messi are the two best ever." Christian Vieri recently said the same thing. I honestly never hear R9 come up in articles , interviews or on television in these debates for where Ronaldo and Messi rank all-time.
For example of a pointless debate in skills: Speed. When we talk of speed, we talk of the speed of a player "With the Ball at His Feet" oK? Who cares if Usain Bolt could clock 9.58 seconds in 100m run but he could not kick the ball into the net! Without the ball at the feet, many could challenge CR7 like Henry, R.Carlos, Walcott ... and Bale
who are those people? the fan boys? or a clueless Vieiri (who never knew Pele )? Show me an official and reliable source? Zero ............................ period As said the only way you can do is "wait and hope" Never know, maybe Portugal will still rely on a veteran CR7 at WC2018? Maybe in this weak era, that veteran could do his last one time wonder performance a la Schilacci WC90? LOL
Santamaria who played with Di Stefano and "knew Pele" said Cristiano is quite possibly the greatest ever. Is that good enough for you? Obviously you are just going to attack the credibility of everyone who thinks Cristiano is one of the top #3 players in history. If Vieri said Pele you wouldn't have a problem with his wisdom. You are so predictable.
This is ridiculous. Speed in football matters with or without the ball. Ronaldo scores huge amounts of goals and creates assists by out sprinting everybody on the field. There is no logic in believing only speed with the ball matters. Any time a player contributes to his team by utilizing speed it is a useful attribute and important to his team. I can't believe you really just made such a preposterous claim. How desperate you are.
no the one who should be desperate is you and many of CR7 fanboy who was so pushy for his Overrated position and skillset Right now R9 was regarded as #4 or #5 in TOP10 WC players of history (by many sources) and he was comfortably in #8 to #18 of TOP20 all time by many sources. CR7 was NO RANKED in either case (well one source WC TOP100 of Dailymail.UK showed CR7 was in #87 <<< R9 in #4) LOL
You mean like Zidane was France's best player in 2006 at 33? Was Zidane a benefactor of "weak era" too?
Champion's League: Cristiano is the greatest Champion's League player ever. 2 Championships with 2 different teams. (only player to score in two finals for two teams) All-time single-season scoring record All-time assist leader All time knockout stage goal leader All-time goals in a single group stage 3 time top scorer 2 time Best Player 9 time Best XI 72 Goals trading back and forth with Messi for most all-time career goals, Has scored vs every team playing with Madrid Ronaldo is probably not top #50 in the Champion's League all-time. Real Madrid: Cristiano will undoubtedly go down in Madrid history as a top #3 player and maybe #1 by the time he retires if he ends his career there. I have not seen Ronaldo ranked above #8. Cristiano brought Real La Decima by producing the greatest individual Champion's League campaign in history. That alone cemented his Madrid legacy for eternity making him 110% Madridismo. Ronaldo was one of the biggest flops in their history. Cristiano holds a multitude of Madrid records. He will surpass Raul early next season for most goals ever in 12 less seasons. First player since Di Stefano to win 2 Ballon D'Ors and only Madrid player to win multiple Golden Boots. Manchester United Cristiano is widely regarded as being at the very top of all-time Manchester United players. Many people had him better than Best, Law and Charlton after '07-08. Had he not left he would be miles ahead of #2 at United. He still shares the Premier League scoring record that he reached at 22 years old. He was the only Premier League player to ever win FIFA World Player of the Year and first to win Ballon D'Or since 1968. For really only 3 seasons before his prime as we now know it, he is still voted as one of the greatest Premier League players ever with some placing him ahead of Henry. National Team: Cristiano was just voted Portugal's best player ever. He is their all-time top scorer. The European Championship all time top scorer. Euro 2012 top scorer, two Best XI's. Portugal has had their best results in Cristiano's era. Only player to score in 6 consecutive tournaments. I've seen Ronaldo ranked behind. Pele, Garrincga and Zico. Ronaldo was clearly superior at World Cup level but that is once tiny facet of their careers. Ronaldo's international career advantage over Cristiano is not as big of a landslide as Cristiano's Champions' League. Cristiano has sustained his Champion's League dominance playing for two teams over 9 years running. Ronaldo winning 2 World Cups does not compare to this for me. Now Ronaldo's Brazil, that's a team of superstar's for you. You don't hod that against him like Cristiano eh? In closing, Cristiano has been the very best Champion's League performer in history, he is at the very top of Premier League and La Liga performers all-time. He is an all-time legend for Real Madrid, Manchester United and he is also Portugal's greatest player ever. He has played at optimal levels for a decade running. Ronaldo Nazario is arguably not top #3 for his country. One of Madrid's biggest flops ever. He had a lack luster Champion's League career as bad or even worse than you view Cristiano's World Cup career and he wasn't spectacular for the last 5 years of his career which was a sad joke where he looked like a washed up fighter who kept taking one last fight. Somehow you look at these two player's career and see Ronaldo 10-15 spots ahead of Cristiano. This makes absolutely no sense.
No big injuries: Yes CR7's career at club is better,no doubt. But R9 played for many teams which weren't strong enough. PSV wasn't so strong as Ajax(He got a big injury at PSV),Barcelona 96-97,Inter Milan 98-02(big injuries),Real Madrid 02-06( already passed his time)
OK, we found out Henry scored 2 goals in 14 finals for Arsenal, Barcelona and France (sometimes unlucky with handballs and early red cards for his team etc.). Maybe also Monaco and New York can be added in due time. Stoichkov had a great amount of goals at the Bulgarian Cup finals and Bulgarian Supercup. He has 3 goals in 5 cup finals. For Barcelona he scored 5 goals in 6 domestic Supercup games (about the equivalent of community shield). He scored 0 goals in 3 European finals. 0 goals in 2 Copa del Rey finals. 1 goal in 3 UEFA Supercup games. Just as Henry he scored in the 'least important' matches. For Parma no finals and I didn't look at the record in USA (like Henry). Rummenigge: 1 goal in 3 international country finals. 0 goals in 2 European finals. 0 goals in 4 UEFA Supercup matches. 0 goals in 2 Intercontinental cup matches. 1 goal in 2 domestic cup finals. There is also one unofficial domestic supercup game played in 1983, but can't find with certainty whether he scored. If I forget something give a shout.
This team wasn't strong enough for scoring goals? In 2002-03 he scored 23 of 86 team goals, although he had to share the limelight with other attackers (Raul Gonzalez). Maybe the team wasn't to the same level built around him. In 2003-04 he scored 24 of 72 team-goals, in 2004-05 it was 21 of 71. I know Madrid of today scores at least 100 goals in each season, and it is a much stronger team, but Cristiano also produces a greater share of all team-goals.
I still don't have a well-developed formula for that, I rely only on perception for now. Tostao was a great footballer at late 60's and during a short period maybe considered on par of a mature Pelé, so at his best you could be right, but as we know he had an early end of career at 26 he drops a bit in my opinion, especially in a comparison with such a regular and long peak performance as Cristiano Ronaldo. I remember you've a very high opinion for Stoichkov (slightly overrated in mine) but apart from differences of opinion I don't think it's a good guideline to expose his success with Barcelona due to the difference in the prominence of the "Dream Team" with Arsenal at the beginning of the century. In the Spanish rows he even count with stars on par or superior than him (Laudrup and Romário).
At least you started realizing the weak era ... Yes in a way ... 2006 was like the end of last era and Euro2008 was a beginning of a new one No, Henry was still the best FW in 2006 along with Etoo and Ronaldinho But Both Henry and Ronnie did not shine at that WC just like CR7 and Messi failed. Henry was supposed to be the best French player in that WC, but old Zidane stole the show with his last performance.
Ibrahimovic also played with or against both Messi CR7 (also he was playing agaist R9) said: Il fenomeno was the best ever (> Pele Maradona, and forget Messi and CR7 ) .... SO? before WC2010, Messi also said , for me Ronaldo fenomeno was the best FW ever! so? Do you see I ever bring those name to back R9 talent? only kids do
I saw info passing by that world record 100 million signing Gareth Bale has missed the 2nd most so called "clear cut chances" this season (9 league goals; Cristiano has 28), of all players active in the big five leagues. Peculiarly, Messi has missed the most.
yes that was just stats ... (one had to realize that CR7 had more than twice #shots as of R9 got - that indicate the team effort in allowing him with that many chances) Situation is: 1- Real 10-15: now is a CR7 team (built around him and everyone had to yield to that ) why? bc CR7 is the only Ballon DOr winner in that all stars team (ironically none of the supporting casts were even close to TOP3 but most TOP10/20) 2- Real 03-06: were no where a R9 team, and even worse they were divided between Raul, Zidane, and Figo. R9 was even a VICTIM of that failure (since he took the limelight out of Raul a Real's Golden child) Why? all 4 were ballon Dor winners (+Owen) already with Raul + Carlos + Beckham were in TOP3 ballon Dors a few times = SUICIDAL project! if one watching them play, at least 1/3 of R9 gaols were his own talent ... and Zidane (carlos) was his most consistent provider/creator. Zidane and Figo never clicked ... even worse than R9 with Raul in front
You post quotes all the damn time from ex-players and managers. Now that they are saying Cristiano is the greatest you claim its "what kids do." Do you realize the double standards you are guilty of here? So quotes only matter when they support what you believe, stats only matter when they prove your argument. Analysis and facts I give are just my opinion but you saying Ronaldo is better is FACT! Players and managers who think Pele or Ronaldo is the greatest are intelligent, players and managers who think Cristiaono is the best are "clueless fanboys." You are unbelievable. This is exactly how kids act James. You said Vieri was "clueless" and "didn't know Pele." "Show me one reliable source." I'd say Santamaria is a reliable source by your definition seeing how he "knew Pele" sand played with Di Stefano. Bobby Charlton "knew Pele" and said "Cristiano is the most enjoyable player I have ever seen. ...He is doing things no other player has done." Raul played with R9 for 5 years and Cristiano only 1. So he is not bias, He said "Cristiano and Messi are the two greatest ever." He also said its hard to say who is better between them but if Cristiano continues for another few years he will be the greatest in history. Ancelotti said Cristiano is the greatest player he has ever managed. He managed R9 for 2 years. Calderon said Cristiano is the greatest player ever. Michael Owen played with Ronaldo at Real. He said "Cristiano is the greatest Real Madrid player ever." These are extremely knowledgeable people with first hand experience at Madrid and with Ronado and Cristiano. You can't just dismiss their conclusions because you don't agree with them. You said a while back that NOBODY thinks Ronaldo is a greatest ever. Well, there are many knowledgeable people disagreeing with you James.
clueless Did you know both Raul Owen were so jealous with R9? Same ting with Ibra (vs Messi) so he said CR7 was better LOL
Hard to put them in order because of so many variables but I'd say the 6 greatest ever as a group are: Pele Cristiano Messi Di Stefano Maradona Cryuff
Ya James sure.. Nice excuse. Raul is a Madrid legend and all-time leading scorer firmly in every top 5 list while Ronaldo is one of the biggest disappointments in club history. Nice try. I'm sure Marcelino, Santamraia, Calderon, Ancelotti, Charlton and Vieri are all jealous too.
just some info fact for you was not you there in 2002, when UEFA handed R9 his ballon Dor in Bernabeu, Real fans were chanting Raul name? Nah ... you you just watched football post WC2006 LOL
If its a conspiracy by Raul to denigrate Ronaldo why wouldn't he mention him? If he wasn't being honest then why why would he include Messi in his response? He didn't just take an opportunity to praise Cristiano, he couldn't separate him from Messi. The question was where do you rank Ronaldo and Messi? He replied that they are the two greatest ever and Cristiano could end his career being the best in history. It has absolutely nothing to do with Ronaldo at all. The question wasn't even about Madrid at all. How he feels abut Ronaldo personally is irrelevant. You are just trying to discredit him so his opinion doesn't count. Sour grapes we call that. Vieri is from Ronaldo's era and a former teammate. That's why I brought him up specifically. He believes the same as Raul. Same as Owen. Why would Santamaria come out and say Cristiano is perhaps the greatest player ever? He played with Di Stefano and Pele. These players are just giving their qualified, "expert" opinion which happen to clash with yours. More importantly why are the people who believe Ronaldo is better more credible? You don't think they have motives? I could easily say that they are bitter about today's player because they are breaking all the records and receive much more attention, pay and praise. You can't tell me Pele isn't bitter. I could say that they all just want to be witnesses to the greatest player ever in their time to feel important. Those excuses are just as valid as yours.