It seems someone needs to get over their inflated regard of their analyzation skills. You analyzed 3 matches, so I took additional time to judge the fourth game you left out. So you have your cherished unwavering criteria set, and I guess no one was aware that if any poster were to rank an additional match without Estel's approval then it is completely inadmissible. Dude, get over yourself. You are not the only one capable of judging shooting opportunities in matches and your criteria also is in no needs to be rigid. He is not getting the type nor frequency of looks in comparison to his preferred position. The higher reasoning would have been you realizing the facts that have surrounded his lack of scoring opportunities. Who is saying it needs to go unnoticed? Read the context of the posts. Defending the fact the player does not deserve the amount and extent of criticism does not mean it should go uncriticised. Not sure what is so hard to understand about that. Instead of this overdrawn misinformed interpretation of my analysis, you could have read my posts regarding the issue and seen that I have criticized the player and have 'denounced' his performances when they have been lacking. I have nothing invested in whether he becomes the 'best' or not. I rank him the way I see him. There is no Real Madrid bias here. Some players are better at adapting to different positions and roles easier than others. It doesnt mean they are automatically better players. Iniesta has adjusted and succeeded in playing left mid, right mid, defensive mid, supporting striker, and attacking mid, that does not make him a better player than Messi. . I specifically stated AT HIS AGE. This should be common sense, it is not a role he plays week in or week out nor one that plays up to his strengths. Messi's main duty is to supply and create opportunities for the strikers, simple as that. He has done that impressively. His job is not to organize and keep fluid ball retention a la Xavi.
Backing out from what??? When did I say you have specific posts admitting a club bias against the player? It is the general delivery in nearly all your posts, and there is no need for you to specifically admit to it to confirm it is true. As stated, Your stubbornness in dispelling a bias reminds me of a diagnosed schizophrenic that refuses to admit he has the condition eventhough it is made clear by his actions, statements, and symptoms . You never had to admit to your club/country/whatever bias for it to be true as it was already glaringly obvious from your style and tone of your evaluations. However, as stated, your actual accusation and claim that I have never been critical of the player was the one proven to be a lie, buddy.
Interesting, how is it that if you have infact analysed the Costa Rica game as you are claiming above, you failed to include the instances mentioned below in 'shots on goal that should have been finished better by Messi'? - Vs Costa Rica 1. 1st Half, freekick from the corner of the box on the right side, position similar to the one that he had against Columbia. This time Messi does much better i.e. does not sky the ball, but still fails to hit the target, albeit narrowly. 2. 2nd Half freekick from infront of the box after Messi is bodychecked by a defender. Messi hits the wall with the ball and the ball bounces up only to be caught by the goalkeeper. 3. 2nd Half header from the edge of the 6 yard box right infront of goal, after Messi played a 1-2 with and then got a chipped pass from Aguero. Although a defender was hanging on to him Messi was able to get good connection on the ball with his head, but it was spectacularly saved by the goalkeeper. Anyway, that makes it 7 good scoring opportunities in 4 games for Messi during Copa 11' which he did not convert. Feel free to disagree though. Ok, but him not getting these shots is whose fault? Is it entirely his Argentina teammates' fault even though Messi is the designated playmaker of that team? (especially talking about the frequency of shots here) In any case, following your above logic to its end, we can conclude that Messi can only finish effeciently when he gets 'the type and frequency of shots which he gets while playing in his preferred position'. So that means finishing is not really a forte of his, atleast not to a level that former attacking greats have displayed, considering that it comes with conditions for optimum performance attached. Ok, so you have denounced and criticised Messi earlier. Thank you. LOL, I was wondering when this was going to pop out. Anyway, if you find any instance in my posts wherein I have not been logical in my assessment and have thus shown my 'Real Madrid' bias, feel free to point it out. Otherwise, I am going to disregard your comment. And yes, if you are going to say that my bias against him is reflected in my posts without it having to be explicitly stated, then I can claim the same regarding you and your posts i.e. you have a pro-Messi bias as seen from your posts even though you claim to be a neutral. Hmm, lack of adaptability will hamper Messi's standing when he goes up against real heavyweights, like the all time greats of yore, not Iniesta ofcourse. And yes, that is unless you believe that those other greats never had to adapt to role and responsibility changes. So whose job is it to organize and keep fluid ball retention for Argentina? Anyway, I have given you my definition of a playmaker's duties (which include team attack organization, etc.), and it is that definition on which my assessment of Messi, as being an ineffective playmaker, is based.
So now we are moving towards insults? You said I had a bias to the players based on "vindictive nationalistic......" and club bias. You can't produce a single post to back that up and now you move the goal posts to say it's reflective in my tone and style of my evaluations. Provide some examples of my tone and style clearly being what you claim to believe in your head and your head only. But that is exactly the job of the #10/play maker for Argentina. It has been for a long long time yet you took it upon yourself to redefine the role to suit your argument.
When and where were insults used? I'm not the one recklessly telling posters 'based on your bullshit' and STFU. No, I have always stated your bias stems from the manner and tone you use to evaluate the player. From your over-exaggeration of his limitations, the emphasis and obsession to find faults in his performances, to your reluctance in proclaiming him the best player when it had been obvious to most non-bias observers. Me stating your club/country/whatever bias was a form of trying to explain the source of the bias, not the instigating factor that there was one. Bringing up all the traditional #10 playmakers has no relevance as his role is not that direct interpretation. If you actually watch the games, you will see his role is to make his runs and combination plays with the midfield/forwards in order to create scoring opportunities for the strikers. He doesn't pretend to nor should he be an organizer responsible for fluidic ball retention.
Messi is a great talent, and he is the 2nd player in history to rival Pele/Maradona/Cruijff in top 3 best all times (since Ronaldo of pre-WC98) However, I find it's funny that Messi "die hard fans" (I am also his fan) made a lot of "double standard" to defend him in Argentina shirt. 1- When talking about goals, they say Messi played in "off position" (as playmaker or kind of it?) . Well sound reasonable but ... REALITY: Messi only played in such position just over a year (WC2010 til now) They forgot Messi pllayed as winger/forward since WC06 for Argentina and his goal stats was always POOR 2- If we buy the reason in 1 (Messi played so deep as "playmaker") they say he did very good there and put blame on all other team members for "poor finishing" !?? REALITY: - Messi was AMONG the "poor finishers" in Argentina shirt, (2goals over 60 shots) not just Milito, Higuain and Tevez ... (Kun did good lately) - The dilemma (of their arguments) in Messi "poor performance" (to his standard) is that: A) Either Maradona was so "LUCKY" to have "not so great" attacking partnership in his prime -yet he delivered WC90 final (Bronze ball) and won WC86 (Golden ball) B) or Messi was so "UNLUCKY" to have "very very good attacking partnership" - yet they were poor not Messi for the failure from WCto last copa (won nothing from individual to team trophy)? People's choices .... LOL
What was your little snippy comment about a schizo? You've made accusations which you have refused to back up with anything other than my tone and your perceived bias. You questioned in an earlier post the comment I made about me actually if anything having a bias towards Messi. https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6750851&postcount=118 The bias referenced in that post isn't because he's a Cule' or a Leproso, it's because he's Argentino. I have always put the shirt before any club and my posts on this site back that up. Hell, most of my favorite NT players over the past 10-15 years...why not, 20 years haven't even been Bosteros. I wasn't part of the shirt kissing national anthem crowd and my opinion about that view is posted. You are simply wrong. To be balanced, I have been critical of Messi which is a fact I've never in my time on this site denied or hidden from. If you think I've been harsh on Messi, you should read my opinions of Ortega and especially Veron who actually spent a short time with my club. For the record I absolutely hate Seba Veron. I am bothered by his scoring slump and I don't buy the whole role argument. He's getting the shots and they are for the most part no different than shots we've seen him bury at Barca dozens of times. If the argument you are making is that he's not getting more and better looks then I do agree with that. The problem I have with that is that it implies that Messi needs more looks to score. He's not an inefficient scorer, he's extremely efficient in fact which makes that fact that he hasn't scored all the more bizarre and frustrating. While all those other factors may be true, he's still the one physically taking the shot on goal. Argentina has always played it's best football with the direct interpretation of a play maker and it's what we lack. That's not a negative reflection on Messi, it's just not a skill set he's refined in. Big deal, with the skill set he does have he's the best player in the world. A fact I've had no issue with since 2005. Like I said before, if you think I'm critical of him then you should see my work on Ortega and Veron. That would be vitriol. You know I mean no offense I hope. Hello poster with the magic television
No. Best-ever players don't depend on a system and can lead both their NT and their club. Di Stefano, Pele, Maradona, and currently Cristiano Ronaldo, fit those requirements. Players like Messi and Zidane are nowadays, overrated because many clubs nowadays depend on a system instead of players individuality.
Neither player has won a WC but CR7 has been more for Portugal then Messi. First it was Maradona's fault now what is it? Didn't Messi's Argentina fail with homefield advantage?
I hope you are sarcastic with this ... The only NT occasion that CR7 gave a glimse (good performance) was back in his very early years at Euro2004. That was IT /// He was no more than a so-so player for Portugal at both WC's Since last Copa11, Messi started playing much better for his NT. I have not yet seen CR7 improving in his NT jersey ... WELLL we'll wait and see him at next Euro12 ...
You make it so obvious that you are a Messi hater. You follow users around every nook and cranny of this forum just to bash Messi without providing any kind of evidence what so ever
Are you calling Copa America a "pointless friendlies" event ? Care to explain more unless you're sarcastic?
I quote you: "Since last Copa2011..." As in after Copa2011. And Messi hardly started playing better for the national team DURING the last Copa.
Messi has been Argentina's best player 90% of the time. I really blame the Arg federation for appointing such terrible coaches. Cmn Sabella? The guy coached 1 team in all his career. btw To anyone please ignore erick, neg rep him and move on..
Agree with the sentiment on Messi and also wholeheartedly agree with you about Erick but I think you aren't giving Sabella enough credit. Granted he's only officially ran one team, that one team had a tremendous run culminating in a Libertadores and torneo title. He also coached the side that probably gave Barca the most hell in a final in a few years. This may only be the second head coach gig he's had but he does have a lot of experience as an assistant and he's already shown to be more flexible than the previous two boludos to call themselves DT.
Upto now, He is still WAY BEHIND ... in catching up with Pele/Maradona - Forget about a possibility of "surpassing" them I think you meant Messi does NOT have to WIN a WC to be among the greatests
Hello friend Vegan 10! I would like to contact you. It has valuable information for my Maradona, I am collecting all parties and goals in friendlies and officers. And I have researched data per ml of friendly matches more than you put in your list. HOPE YOUR ANSWER!