There's trouble in Blue Heaven (R)

Discussion in 'College & Amateur Soccer' started by turnaround, Sep 14, 2002.

  1. Carolina

    Carolina Member

    Dec 6, 2000
    Does anyone know how Ford Williams played in the loss?
  2. JG

    JG Member+

    Jun 27, 1999
    Second time in four years Yale has beaten the defending national champs in the opener at this tournament (Indiana in 1999).
  3. El Golazo

    El Golazo New Member

    Apr 19, 2000
    Washington DC
    Wonder if this one can be blamed in part on the absence of David Testo due to his 2-game suspension. Anybody see the game?
  4. llama

    llama New Member

    Dec 6, 2001
    i was at the game...north carolina was absolutely terrible in the first half and for most of the game. they played some of the most uninspired soccer i've ever seen at this level. not what i would expect from the defending national champions. stokes had a nightmare...elmar pulled him before halftime. seems like he's in the doghouse. yes, unc had their share of opportunities in the second half and yale's keeper played brilliantly, but it just wasn't good enough. well, i'm looking forward to another exciting acc/ivy matchup tomorrow as the heels take on brown.
  5. jmagic

    jmagic New Member

    Sep 8, 2002

    Looks like its time for a shakeup on both ends of the field (def/off).
  6. Courtney

    Courtney Member

    May 14, 2000
    How did Storey play?
  7. BlueChip

    BlueChip New Member

    Feb 12, 2002
    Up and Down

    Having seen quite a bit of UNC this year already, they are definitely one of the most inconsistent teams you'll see. They have tremendous attacking options in Kneipper, Storey and Testo, and Pause is one of the most underrated players in the country.

    Saying that, their inability to recruit a good class this year has left them trying to put guys like Pause in their defense, Crawford (who's an excellent wide player) in the middle of their midfield, and I'm not even sure where Gell plays anymore!

    Regardless as to what his resume says, Ford Williams had a nightmare this summer with the Raleigh PDL team and it looks like the clock has struck 12:00 for Cinderella at UNC. The rumors are that a CASL goalkeeper (Justin Hughes) has also verbally committed to go to UNC next year, so he must not feel too threatened after watch Williams play this year.

    When they do play well, a lot of it is based on a group of seniors with excellent leadership and find ways to win. I hope they can pull it together because they were a fun group to watch and cover last year.
  8. jmagic

    jmagic New Member

    Sep 8, 2002
    Godd Assessment

    Good Assessment Blue Chip.

    What about their other keeper, Batt? Played UConn tough (only scored upon by a PK and a well placed direct kick), had 88 minutes of solid ball against Akron (except for the dropped ball - first time jitters?) And a great game against St. Louis (the one goal caught the whole D napping). He played with Uelsch, et. al so he's been around and may deserve another shot.

    Freshman keepers (no matter what their resume) usually do not cut it (at least their first year) in the ACC. Heismer (WF) and Palmer (MD) both had to shake things out before they got in the groove. Comfort (UVA) and Warren (Clemson) claimed their place in net after their second year; either by beating the incumbent or transferring from another school.

    It will be interesting to see who they put in net today bexause they have to be ready for UVA next Saturday. Since UVA lost to WF its a critical time for both teams.
  9. k1v1n

    k1v1n New Member

    May 4, 2002

    Why are you placing the blame on the keeper? Everyone knew Carolina's defense was a big question mark coming into the season. You certainly can't place the blame of the Davidson loss on Williams. No one could have saved that goal. The post from the Yale game certainly doesn't say Williams had a bad game. It did say that Stokes had a nightmare, and that he was removed in the first half to never return. For a player of his stature to be sat for the rest of the game is telling (unless he's injured--which is always possible).

    Carolina graduated two of the best defenders in the college game last year and they brought in no replacements. You're expecting way too much if you think that a keeper (any keeper) can compensate for that kind of loss.
  10. BlueChip

    BlueChip New Member

    Feb 12, 2002
    pay attention

    Where there was no mention about Williams being at fault for the Davidson or Yale losses (although maybe with such a quick defensive response, maybe you saw something I didn't in the Davidson game), I did state that he did not play well this summer in the PDL.

    Williams' stock had to go down during the summer, where NC State's Watson seemed to emerge as the top goalkeeper on that team as the season went on. The fact that UNC has recruited another goalkeeper has to lead you to believe that they are probably not completely confident in him. Does he have the potential to be a competent college goalkeeper? Certainly. Is he as good as his billing would lead you to believe? NO!

    I appreciate the fact that parents of players write in defense of their children (as it must be Williams' father - who else would be so defensive?), but you have to be able to look objectively at player performance. That, as well as the debates that you find on this site, is the beauty of
  11. k1v1n

    k1v1n New Member

    May 4, 2002
    Re: pay attention

  12. PB04

    PB04 New Member

    Aug 27, 2002
    Besides losing a good portion from last year's defense, the other missing piece from that team that is rarely mentioned is Noz Yamauchi. He was the x-factor offensively from last year's fairly predictable offense. He caused fits and mismatches for most teams that played against them.

    I agree with K1VIN - it's too early to tell with Williams - especially with an inexperienced in front of him.
  13. BlueChip

    BlueChip New Member

    Feb 12, 2002
    Re: Re: pay attention

  14. Courtney

    Courtney Member

    May 14, 2000
    Re: Re: Re: pay attention

    Any school with any sort of brain will recruit more than one goalkeeper, it's not an issue of confidence.

    3 games into a season you can't really make too much of a judgement on how a player is, I'll be the first to admit that most of UVA's top players are playing horrible so far this year, while someone such as yourself might have just seen a few games and declare them just to be horrible players. It takes awhile for players to mesh.

    Also anyone who is a fan of any team is likely to be defensive about them. I defend a lot of UVA's players, it doesn't make me their mother or sister.
  15. jmagic

    jmagic New Member

    Sep 8, 2002

    FIXXXER New Member

    Feb 16, 2001
    Hotlanta, GA
    Re: Re: Re: Re: pay attention

    Courtney - Interesting point. Before the 'Great BigSoccer Crash of '02' there was a thread discussing recruiting keepers. It started b/c Martin Hutton transfered from Clemson to SLU - he was behind Doug Warren for another 6 months. A lot of the comments were directed at Clemson's coach, saying that he shouldn't have 2 keepers of that quality. I never understood that point. It creates competition, which does nothing but make the individuals and team stronger. I realize keepers need games, but if I'm a coach I'm getting the best players I can, top to bottom, it's then up to them to earn there playing time. So, it was good to see you bring this point up again.

    FIXXXER New Member

    Feb 16, 2001
    Hotlanta, GA
    Re: Why?

    Another interesting point. UNC lost there goal keeping coach to WUSA after the national championship. His new WUSA team then turned around and won the WUSA championship. I mentioned on a separate thread that I thought some of the problems could be adjusting to a new coach, new training, etc. Someone thought that was a terrible suggestion and that the GK coach played no factor in UNC's winning or UNC's losing. As I did on that thread, I'd like to disagree on that point. Yes, I think losing defenders also played a part. But from the GK's that I have known or read about, they are very particular about their training and don't like to change once they've worked with someone that they like or that motivates and instructs them properly, or in a way that leads to positive production. So once again, I'd like to suggest the loss of a very successful GK coach as a part of UNC's problem.
  18. collegesoccerfan#1

    collegesoccerfan#1 New Member

    Apr 21, 2002
    North Carolina
    Re: Re: Why?

    FIXXXER, while changing their GK coach may be a contributing factor to UNC's two early season losses, in their case it probably is minor at best. Jay Batt is the only holdover GK from last year, so he could have developed a relationship with Scott Calebrese and a preference for his training. But Ford Williams and the transfer from UAB (who I think has already left the team) are new to the program along with the new keeper coach John Cone. And I've heard that Cone's style and demeanor are consistent with GK coaches that Williams has trained with in the past, and he is also similar to Calabrese. So while I accept your assertion, I doubt that it's much of a factor. I think any "problems" in the back has more to do with replacing Jackson, Leitch, and Ueltschey, and also making the change to playing four in the back instead of three as they did last year. And so far, their new defense has given up 7 goals in 6 matches, so it's not a total disaster. They got their first shutout today against Brown, so maybe they're getting it sorted out. They had better get it straight, since UVa is less than a week away!
  19. jmagic

    jmagic New Member

    Sep 8, 2002
    Not A Total Disaster at All

    The records inidicate 18 goals for, and 7 goals against, in 7 matches.

    Date Opponent Outcome
    08/24/2002 Connecticut (exhibtion) T, 2-2(#6TOM)
    08/30/2002 Akron Chapel Hill W, 2-1 (OT)
    09/01/2002 Saint Louis Chapel Hill W, 2-1(#11TOM)
    09/05/2002 Long Island Chapel Hill W, 4-2
    09/07/2002 Davidson Chapel Hill L, 1-0
    09/13/2002 Yale Providence, R.I. L, 2-1
    09/15/2002 Brown Providence, R.I. W, 5-0

    UNC will have it sorted out by the time they meet the "Hoo's" of UVA. All ACC fans are in for a great match as much is on the line.

    I agree with FIXXXER, all coaches including Keeper coaches have a big impact on the team. If this board praised O. Weiss for his ability to recruit and contribute to UNC's past/present success as first assistant, then members of this board have to acknowledge Calabrese's work with Uelsch, Batt and others and now John Cohn for his work with Williams and Batt (Wilcox is gone).

    If the chemistry is there then good things are going to happen, if the chemistry is missing then....
  20. collegesoccerfan#1

    collegesoccerfan#1 New Member

    Apr 21, 2002
    North Carolina
    Re: Not A Total Disaster at All

    My math says 16 for, 9 against in the seven matches, but what's a couple of goals among friends! I was only counting the 7 against for the six regular season matches.
  21. jmagic

    jmagic New Member

    Sep 8, 2002
    With Apologies

    With apologies csf#1 you are correct and I stand corrected...So much for a college education...and to think I'm still paying on student loans...
  22. Jenagrantfan

    Jenagrantfan New Member

    Nov 14, 2001
    Everything is going to be alright at UNC, got a good win, Porter is back in the line-up, which means Logan moves up front. This will be very important especially against UVA.

    And fixxer for the last time, the GK coach is not the problem in Chapel Hill.

    FIXXXER New Member

    Feb 16, 2001
    Hotlanta, GA
    Thank You!!!!!! You have finally acknowledged that there are problems in Dreamland...

    I never said that was THE problem...I said it was a contributing factor, I still believe that. Collegesoccerfan#1 made good points...maybe the info will be easier to swallow from him...
  24. collegesoccerfan#1

    collegesoccerfan#1 New Member

    Apr 21, 2002
    North Carolina
    Re: Good Assessment

    Well, it looks like Elmar went with the kid Williams against Brown, and the TEAM got the shutout. As has been pointed out in other posts on this thread, the GK probably gets too much credit for shutouts, and too much blame when scored upon.

    So the question is, will Elmar stick with Williams for the conf matches? And will Williams just not "cut it" in the ACC as a freshman as suggested by jmagic?

Share This Page