The YBTD Pro/Rel Thread, Part 9,614

If the day comes when the USSF makes such a foolish decision MLS will simply severe ties with the USSF. On the surface that will appear suicidal because it will put MLS off FIFA governance and delegitimatize it. But, on that day, MLS will probably be a financial powerhouse comparable, if not larger, than the top European league. So, while it would appear that MLS would leave, USSF would suddenly see the light and not follow through. Just as the FA realized that it had to accommodate the Premier League when it was formed, and the NCAA had to accommodate the formation of the Football Bowl Division when the top teams/conferences threatened to bolt, the USSF will realize that without MLS, they are small potatoes.

 

I don't think Husidic has any FIFA nationality at this point. He's never played for Bosnia even at youth levels, and was a US citizen before he went pro.

 

Ummmmmm.... khakis?

 

No I'm pretty sure it's you who doesn't understand.

It's going to be so amusing to watch certain people flip out over the next ~50 years as many other soccer leagues around the world become more like MLS (no pro/rel, salary caps, playoffs, etc.) than the other way around...

Oh and I don't watch NFL because football doesn't interest me, but is there anything more hilarious than pro/rel fanatics who compare MLS to the NFL as if that's the worst thing imaginable? "You fools keep on your path emulating the most successful sports league on the planet, my three friends and I are gonna watch Tampa Bay Rowdies play FC Edmonton instead!"

 

*Takes a quick peek at Show Ignored Content.
Sees Baloney86 is still in 24/7/365 troll MLS mode 3.5 years later.
Reloads page with ignored content back to being hidden.*

 

Partly right, a means to the end being regulating countless clubs in an organized way, first in a local, than regional and in the end national setting. It kind of evolved in the Pro/Rel system.
The other part why it exists in Europe is the fact that clubs were born from the fans themselves, so there in the "birth explosion" of clubs were no investors, only roots in sometimes tiny neighbourhoods. Clubs probably already existed before there was any regulated competition structure. The fans are the clubs as they are the driving force behind them. It wasnot a pet project of someone with a big wallet, who on a day thought "let's start a professional club".

 

Care to mention leagues that matter that do so?

 

"as many other soccer leagues around the world become more like MLS (no pro/rel, salary caps, playoffs, etc.)"

Care to re-read what I wrote? Like perhaps the full sentence instead of just part of it?

"over the next ~50 years"

There is already talk of a European SuperLeague... if it happens do you really think they're going to let Bournemouth and Eibar get promoted into that? The whole point will be to... dun dun dun... maximize the money they make by creating a NFL type league of the European superclubs.

 

Red part incorrect, it was to organize clubs, not pro clubs, and not a 100 years ago, but now as the reasons for it are still the same....in Europe
Blue part is the essential reason why it doesnot exist in the USA and the franchise model also means that a club is where the owner/franchise chain wants it to be. A soccer fan wants to be able to go to a club, so in the circumstances of the USA, where pro clubs didnot grow out of local based amateur clubs, but from investment in a start up club, he's not traditonally tied to a local club.
As long as the franchise model in the MLS form exists there will be no Pro/Rel.

 

Yeah, the same kind of talk the Pro/Rel for USA fans are using to propagate it in the USA. Bull shit. You state a mirage as a fact in the quoted part.

 

http://www.espnfc.us/french-ligue-1/story/2461334/ligue-1-reduces-relegation-spots-to-two

Step one will be to lower the number of teams that are promoted and relegated. Ligue 1 did that just last year, getting rid of a relegation spot. Even if a Euro Superleague doesn't happen, the top leagues themselves will likely get rid of pro/rel as the money gap between levels continues to widen.

 

Whatever competitive limitations not having prorel may cause, might be overcome with development gains. If a coach doesn't have to worry about relegating his owners hundred million dollar investment, he might be more open to playing a kid from the academy. The next ten years are going to be interesting to watch in that regard I think.

 

If we cannot relegate Colorado and Chicago, who can we relegate?

Bruce always has the air about him that he is the smartest person in the room. He is usually right.

 

Yes, perhaps.

But the "stability" and "security" that MLS has in place also creates somewhat of an atmosphere of "complacency" and not really much of an apparent urge or push to say actually find a way to succeed (on some accelerated timeline) in something (external) like the CCL.

 

God, I need a cigarette after that.

 

Why?

I often see people making this argument, and I've never seen it substantiated. From what I've been able to read of English history, the leagues drove their own formation, not the FA. Federations are often at odds with the leagues in their own countries. They have different jobs.

The amateur leagues that have pro/rel in this country (and there are many) aren't doing so because of USSF. It's just how it works.

But even if you believe USSF has to be the driver behind pro/rel, could they really force it on MLS?

The NASL sent an angry legal letter when USSF changed D1 standards a few months ago. Can you imagine MLS owners' response if USSF changed them to impose pro/rel if they weren't on board with the idea?

I do think an MLS1/MLS2 is possible in our lifetimes, and I could see something similar happening overseas. I wouldn't be surprised if the EPL went to two tiers -- in some respects, it's just semantics, but it could also diminish the financial gap between the first and second levels.

 

Absolutely. When D.C. United was horrible a couple of years ago, they were able to take some risks and try some players out. They were all playing for their careers in the sense that, say, Joleon Lescott is not.

Pro/rel has pros and cons. When your team is 17th in the Premier League, you're a little more likely to play the grizzled veterans who can grit their way to a few precious points. On the flip side -- look at the NBA and teams tanking for last place. (Fortunately, the MLS SuperDraft doesn't have players like Jahlil Okafor and Ben Simmons floating around, so the incentive for tanking is a little less.)

 

Not disagreeing with you but College Football has many national deals. That is an example of a big TV money minor league sport.

 

LOL. College sports are not a minor league sport. It is a completely different animal tied to over a century of tradition that began long before there ever was an NFL or NBA.

It's beyond ridiculous to compare Alabama footabll or Kentucky basketball to the D-League, AAA Baseball or the AHL

 

#1 The first thing that's going to happen is the effective end of the single entity and a move to NFL style franchises. For the record, I don't see that happening anytime soon. Maybe in 10 years.

#2 Promotion/relegation isn't going to happen. Stop discussing it. I know that if Bruce Arena, who's infinity smarter than I am and knows infinity more about the game than I do, can't slow people down I sure as hell can't. But I feel it necessary to say anyway. Lo and behold, this thread is devolving to another pro/rel discussion. Stop it.

 

I'm just counting flags on wikipedia. And in soccer context, non-US FIFA nationality is all that really matters. Bruce's point was that the league isn't encouraging enough American talent (which is the same line repeated in every single league around the world, and I kind of doubt if its ever actually true). Whether his internationals are permanent residents of the US or not, they certainly aren't helping out the USMNT

 

Didn't they reverse that decision though?

http://www.espnfc.us/french-ligue-1...-1-promotion-relegation-places-to-remain-same

 

So everyone is just going to pretend that the Major/Minor League aspect of an MLS1 MLS2 set up isn't a thing?

Awesome.

 

It is not that there is "no help" but that the help isn't "sufficient enough" to your liking.

It could be argued that the full LAG roster (to include all those guys on foreign national teams) does "help out the USMNT" by (theoretically) making players like Zardes and Llegett (and Donovan and Gordon before them) "better players" who play with and learn on quality club teams.

Arena is crafting a lineup per MLS's roster rules and the "foreign player" limits MLS/USSsoccer has in place. There could of course be a long discussion about the "composition" of MLS rosters and how the league is (and/or should be) "helping out" the US men's programs.

 

It wouldn't have to be called 1 and 2 per se, it could be MLS American and MLS National or MLS East and MLS West or something of that nature. Have 24 teams in each league that only play each other throughout the season, Supporter's Shield for each league winner and then the MLS Cup between the winner of each league. Allows for more top teams, but still no pro/rel; ESPN could show an Eastern matchup one week and Western the next and vice versa for Fox/NBC/whomever.