The World Cup

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by The Wee Man, Jun 23, 2006.

  1. yalpstel

    yalpstel Member

    Oct 12, 2000
    Bay Area, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Johnny, thank you so much for your thought provoking posts...this fan (me) who aspires to speak with authority about the game always learns so much from you.

    What exactly do you mean by what I have quoted..."the Pro's interest above the good of the game."? I would think that the Pro's interests would be to grow soccer at home? Our US/MLS pros put so much into community.

    When I read about the US Soccer Federation and all the millions of dollars - I know my family alone has contributed thousands upon thousands of dollars through youth soccer here in Nor Cal - I cringe because there is so much corruption and politics in youth soccer it's just sickening. I am now in my 12th year in youth soccer with a son who had dreams of playing professionally (most kids who take it seriously see themselves as such in their futures - bless their hearts ;) ).

    Will soccer ever be in this country what it is to other countries? Sadly, I have my doubts, but that does not stop me from advocating for doing everything possible to at least try.
     
  2. The Wee Man

    The Wee Man New Member

    Jul 11, 2003
    San Jose
    People like you (your son and his dreams) are the lifeblood of the game I truly appreciate the fans love of the sport.

    I want to be clear in saying that I think the Pro’s are vital in the growth of the game. It is imperative that all kids who play the game take time to see the best players live in person to really judge the speed and talent it takes to play at the highest level. I also think there are great Pro players who continue to contribute to the community that they play in by dedicating their time to pass on their knowledge to kids and coaches who want to soak that knowledge up. There are Pros who believe in the American game and the American player. In fact there are Pro’s who believe that they have a responsibility to give back to the game in order to see it grow.

    The Pro agenda I object to is more on the MLS ownership and Management level. It is the people who could care less about the American player but want to make money from North American, Central American and eventually South American TV rights as the business objective not the growth of the American game or Player. The MLS ownership has that objective as well as stadium and real estate investment objective. The Chivas USA was a good example. The powers that be thought a Mexican team would stroll into the League pack the house and win the championship. The team had almost no American players although there are thousands of kids with the same dream as your Son. In fact the team was the worst in the league, at the last part of the season they could not sell tickets and were a failure (except AEG made money by allowing them to play in AEG’s stadium). AEG also sold all of their sponsorships (conflict of interest) so the only people who gained were AEG.

    Chivas have learned this year and have signed a number of American players and they are a better team for it. USSF allowed in a largely foreign team to play in the league at the expense of the development the American player. Club America also publicly stated that they would buy the San Jose Earthquakes and replace the American players with Mexican players. AEG publicly stated that they wanted to sell the Earthquakes to Club America. How does that line up with USSF, the future US National teams goals, the growth of the game or indeed the dreams of kids like your Son?

    My point is that USSF must stand and serve the charter that has been awarded to them by FIFA as the folks responsible for the development of the game. The Pro’s have shown that they have another agenda. I agree with you that it is in their best interest in developing American talent but they have shown that it is somewhat low on their list of priorities. USSF must take more responsibility for the way the game is being run.
     
  3. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    Thanks Wee Man, for the insightful posts. I think your point about developing players at all levels is key.

    What we also missed in Germany, was the opportunity to elevate the recognition of brilliant US talent like Ching, Twellman, Dempsey, Johnson, etc...opting instead to go with our old vets, who have contributed greatly to US soccer, but clearly weren't up to the task.

    Before England/Ecuador, Alexi & Eric were speculating about Beckham coming to MLS, which I found amusing. We definately need a little star power though...especially now.

    Both the stadiums and player development should be priorities, whereas right now, getting stadiums built seem to be overshadowing the quality of play on the field, with very disappointing results (just look at LA!).

    BTW, I noticed the Dallas and LA stadiums looking pretty vacant yesterday. I wonder if WC '06 slows attendance and interest in MLS? The blunder of moving the Quakes just looks increasingly more idiotic as time passes. :mad:

    Anyway, fortunately a glorious Beckham free-kick has raised my soccer spirits!

    [​IMG]

    Go England!!

    PS - I wonder if we could get anyone other than Balboa to cover the England matches!? That guy is so obviously an England hater.
     
  4. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    BTW Wee Man, if you're not fully on-board with the England campaign...I think that'll be understood! ;)
     
  5. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That ruined my day. Your lot got dead lucky, the call that gave you that winning free kick wasn't even a foul. Of course, if our guys could have managed to at least put the ball on frame it would have been different. Grrrrr!

    QUAKES FOREVER!!
    GO SSV!!
    GO WOLFF!!

    - Mark
     
  6. The Wee Man

    The Wee Man New Member

    Jul 11, 2003
    San Jose
    Is England in it?
     
  7. rcoull

    rcoull Member+

    May 18, 2001
    The Woodlands, TX
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I can't believe the Jock's arn't supporting England!! I remember the first World Cup I followed I was so supporting Aly's Army as England didn't qualify. (Archie's goal against Holland is still really vivid in my mind as I was screaming at the TV).

    I think the years of pain and suffering will contine next Saturday as England's quarter-final bogey man (Scolari) is waiting for us. Unless England discover passion the short handed Portugal will still be far too strong.

    -Richard
     
  8. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was waiting for his response. :D
     
  9. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    hey, not too shabby for a team that's "played like crap...blah, blah, blah." So far, the results look pretty damn good. :) ...winning their group, winning today...looking more and more threatening...hmmmm?

    It's already a great showing for the lads.
     
  10. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Shocklying, the occupied rarely support the occupiers.

    Ecuador should have beaten you today, badly. They couldn't shoot to saves their lives, but cleary had the better scoring chances, and you side never looked good attacking their goal, except on that one Beckham kick, that again, you should never have gotten as it wasn't a foul.

    I fully expect Portugal to embarrass Enguland, and I hope to enjoy it!!

    QUAKES FOREVER!!
    GO SSV!!
    GO WOLFF!!

    - Mark
     
  11. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    that was a horrible, blatant, crunching foul, and you know it :D

    ...and England definately pressed the attack more, which showed progress. By next week, the attack will be formidable. I predict Rooney lives up to the hype. :cool:

    We did need a miracle save by Cole though...whew! :eek:
     
  12. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    BTW Mark, why so much hate for my tiny island homeland? Were you colonized at some point? :confused:
     
  13. rcoull

    rcoull Member+

    May 18, 2001
    The Woodlands, TX
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Occupiers??? The Union was not an occupation. Scottish King - English Parliament. I would never presume to claim that England occupied Scotland, more a betrayal by James if anything!! Yes,granted there was a long history of cross border incursions form both sides,but, never anything that amounted to a conquest of full occupation. In fact I can claim to have been in occupied territory as after Bannnockburn the North-East England down to the River Tees was occupied under a very violent subjucation by the Scots. (However, that's when we can trace our family moving into County Durham from Scotland, so I guess some good came of it :) ). Now, if you were a Taff I'd accept that argument!!.

    However, I do fear that your claim about Portugal being too strong for England is accurate.

    (btw Mark, how are you doing? Long time since we corresponded: We might have rivalry next year as the Triangle is getting a Division 1 USL expansion team!)

    -Richard
     
  14. Jay Hipps

    Jay Hipps Member

    Mar 18, 2000
    Northern California
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Scotland was in it, too (at least the first round).

    Actually, my wife and I ran into some Scotland supporters a couple different times over there. Once was on the train back from the T&T/Sweden match, and there were some guys on the train train back to Cologne sitting behind us, singing songs about Russell Latapy. The funny thing was, they were singing with Scottish accents! I finally had to check out what was going on and found a half dozen Scots in kilts with T&T jerseys on top. Turns out the club team they support, Falkirk, had a couple T&T players on it so they were there to support T&T as well.

    I also saw some other Scots, with kilts, wearing t-shirts that said the following:

    I am a proud supporter of
    SCOTLAND

    and

    on June 10
    Paraguay

    on June 15
    Trinidad & Tobago

    on June 20
    Sweden​

    :D
     
  15. KMJvet

    KMJvet BigSoccer Supporter

    May 26, 2001
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At the start of the WC, I was all set to support England, afterall Carrick, Lennon, Robinson and Jenas are all there.

    Crouch stooping so low as to pull someone's hair in order to get passed TnT and England's taking a "who cares, no biggie" attitude to that caused me to lose interest in supporting them. And Rooney's 6-year-old child attitude is such a turn off.
    I pretty much agree with Mark, they're only doing this well because the had a weak group, a round of 16 match up with an overachiever, some picardia, a lot of luck, and a few blips of individual skill. At least Carrick and Lennon have aquited themselves with class and good games and I'll just hope Robinson was actually hurt and not pulling a Ghana.
     
  16. rcoull

    rcoull Member+

    May 18, 2001
    The Woodlands, TX
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Yup you're right they were in it!!

    -Richard
     
  17. rcoull

    rcoull Member+

    May 18, 2001
    The Woodlands, TX
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I actually cannot disagree with you much. I am dissapointed with some of the behaviour and attitude, and if I hadn't been waiting and supportubg for over 30 years I think I'd feel the same as you. Also, although this is no excuse there have been, over the history I have supported England more calls gone against them than for (at least two have directly caused us to be eliminated from the World Cup). I really hope we are not joining the "if you can't beat them join them attitude". I would find that diffcult to swallow. It is one real cancer that has come into the English came with some many "immigrants" now playing in England and with a foreign manager. I hope it stops. Having said that there has been no where near as many incidents from England as the flopping and play acting we've seen from so many teams in this cup for example: Italy, Argentina, Mexico, Holland and Ukraine. etc... many of these have led to goals, cards and penalties. It's about time FIFA stepped in and punished all such incidents. If it was an English (or US) player that was punished in such away I would be happy and accept it as just. Blatter and his cronies just to not have the balls to do it!!

    -Richard
     
  18. KMJvet

    KMJvet BigSoccer Supporter

    May 26, 2001
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm sure if I were a long term supporter with a deeper feeling of the history and more emotional investment, I'd feel exactly the same. I respect you though as one of the few supporters of the English team posting on BigSoccer in the threads I've been in that can see where I'm coming from to some extent without having to agree with it to any large extent. For me it was about supporting teams with players on club teams I support and with lots of players I know and really like. So it was sad, but not in a year-after-year supporter sense "hard," for me to lose interest in supporting their effort.

    I've decided it's pretty unlikely to stop. There's just more people worldwide involved in the game that don't want it to stop. I think the USA is doomed for many years unless they catch on to "joining them." Most American fans won't like the game if we "join them" I'm sure. But I think it's part of doing better in the WC by a non-world power team like USA. For the USA, I think we can continue to despise it and fail at the WC or embrace it do better--and lose a lot of American fan support in the process unless winning just turns out afterall to be all that really matters as Shep Messing contends.

    It seems most Americans think the solution could come from changing the rules. I don't know what all the folks who don't want any changing of the rules to make them more byzantine, think could work? It seems like English fans are staunchly opposed to LOTG changes. I don't see that imposing the English or American cultural opinion on "sportsmanship" is going to happen though.

    I agree. I got pretty angry with everyone saying the Aussie's were the dirtiest team and forgiving Holland a lot worse sins just due to the incident in the friendly. Not that the couple of the EPL Aussie's haven't bin disgraceful in their deportment.

    Can you even imagine how many players would have still been on the field at the end of the game if POR-NED had any of the 3 referees that US had (or Dracula from England's first game) ....and that would have likely been a completely correct result to send that many players off!! I suppose giving the red, which it should have been, on the cleating of Christiano Ronaldo might have settled things down, but probably not. I suspect there's a good chance the game would have ended 7 on 9 even if Ivanov hadn't given one of his characteristic free pass yellow instead of red cards that he does in big games. I'm also pretty sure (my bias on their what their biases are is speaking here no doubt) that if it non-UEFA teams behaved that way with that or any UEFA ref, it would also have ended about 7 on 9. Maybe my frustration level with the elements of soccer that I hate is just brimming over.

    Flopping is pretty out of control Players that try to play through contact and just play the game have become the suckers and fools. The players the feel contact and fall are the "smart" ones at least according to all the US commentators. I don't know what's to be done though. The refs say they're in a lose-lose situation with trying to call any sort of simulation except for blatent, no contact at all diving.
     
  19. bigdumbgod

    bigdumbgod Member+

    Jun 25, 2005
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This 'awful' play by England seems to have produced results, no matter what Celo or other crabs blather on about. Just wait til Sven, after constant frightening pressure from the fans who escaped the German riot squads, finally puts another striker up front with Piggy. Then again, how many players from Portugal are eligible to even wink at the next FIFA ref without getting tossed? Another (convincing?) win for the 3Lions. They do seem to have a bit of luck on their side this time out, don't they?
     
  20. rcoull

    rcoull Member+

    May 18, 2001
    The Woodlands, TX
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I fear you are right. I think one of the US's problems in the World Cup was nievity as to how the other teams were going to "manipulate" the refs. The game against Italy was a prime example. How much contact was there on most of the fouls, especially early on. All the defender did was move his arms and BOOM the player had been shot. Italy's goal came from a free kick won just this way. I think teams need to play with an understanding of what is going on. England for a long time suffered from situations such as this when the club sides were banned from Europe. We really hadn't seen diving until they got back and for a long time there was winging about it. The teams then adjusted. In some way's they have joined in. In other's they have learnt to play with being aware about it. I think you can win by being relatively fair. I think the US public would support a winner to a certain level as I think there is a latent partiotism that could come out (I still have never figured out why such a patriotic country is so non when it comes to sports - by this I mean the US flag, pledge of allegience, National Anthem etc... is so central to so many things here, but National Pride in the sports teams is negligible, whereas back at home you'd be lucky to see a Union Jack or St.George's flag anywhere except public buildings,but, once a National Team is playing, no matter which one the place goes nuts.). This also leads to another point, the pressure onn the players to get a win I think the US saw to a certain degree this year a magnifying nature of the press at this level. If you go to other countries where soccer rules multilply that by 100's of times. It makes the build up to the Superbowl for exanple seem like a liitle league game.

    What's the fix? I don't think messing with the Laws ie necessarily a good thing. I think a lot of the problems with the refs this time (I have no idea how they are going to find 12 good ones for the final rounds) is that the rules of how the games are to be called were changed at the last minute and no one has a clue what is happening. I agree certain things need to be tweaked and other's added, but, at the end of the day we need to make the game fairer without taking the drama away.

    -Richard
     
  21. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    or the TNT player who dove without being touched causing Lampard to pick up a yellow.
    There has been less than admirable behavior by every team in the tournament, and I certainly wouldn't place England with the worse culprits. England's big negative is their boring, uninspiring play.

    And by the way, Crouch didn't "stoop low", he was elevated upward by the "Hair of God"! :p
     
  22. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some of the teams in this cup have gotten away with murder. The Italians just got another pk that was richly undeserved. That said, had the Ozzies finished their chances, it would have been moot.

    The Portugal-Holland match was disgusting. I'm not sure what the ref could have done. Even as he was blowing the whistle and trying to sort out a foul and give a yellow card, other players were hitting each other behind his back. Should he have shown a red card to the Dutch coach?! Clearly, the Dutch came out at the opening whistle intending to play a very dirty game. They fouled C. Ronaldo hard and early until he left the game. They dove like Greg Lugainus. That was disgraceful. Happily, the Portuguese were up to fighting back. So we saw plenty of hard fouls in return, a little diving, too much bitching to the ref, and ultimately the right team won. But in all fairness, FIFA could dish out a couple more suspensions to the Portugese for their behaviour, and it would be reasonable.

    I'm rooting for Portugal and I was offended.

    I don't think that the Engulish are diving or committing lots of nasty fouls. I do think that they are getting the benefit calls they don't deserve, but that's on the refs being swayed that "this is a good team" and therefore they should get the benefit of the doubt on calls.

    It getting pretty depressing.

    QUAKES FOREVER!!

    - Mark
     
  23. sc2002

    sc2002 New Member

    Jan 14, 2005
    Space
    I'm incredibly pissed by that call. I thought Aussie did an awesome job holding off Italy like that. The frustrating part was their finishing. The point still stands that they got totally robbed. This is getting to be incredibly asinine with the ref calls. I think it's the worst call I've seen so far in the cup. It clearly wasn't a foul. I bet the ref wasn't looking forward to the overtime that was bound to come up.


    I caught the second half and was absolutely appalled. It was craaazy. They should have eliminated both teams just for the hell of it. Neither deserve to move on with that attitude.


    Article.

    I think it's sad he picks that game to finally say something about the inconsistencies. Did he not see the US/Italy game? I'm guessing he only did it because it was so very, very blantantly obvious how bad the game was. The funny thing is that it wasn't entirely the ref's fault the players were being nutcases. As you said, he could only control so much.
     
  24. Beerking

    Beerking Member+

    Nov 14, 2000
    Humboldt County

    The Australians were ROBBED by the italians today with that pathetic dive in the box in injury time. A bad WC just gets worse :(
     
  25. OldFanatic

    OldFanatic Member

    Jan 12, 2004
    Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Joga Bonito" is dead.
     

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