Don't worry I'm out, by the way VS, Cafe Tacuba is a great band and I've seen them twice... Molotov is the best though... completely different bands I know.
To be brief.. The press ALWAYS includes our negative attitude, if and when displayed by however few rotten apples may exist. Now shaking hands? This is soccer. This isn't Little League. In fact, this cannot be compared by any sport organization in this country. Emotions run deep, history is involved, blah blah blah. I don't recall losing players ever having to forcefully shake any winning player's hand. And as for this country having a belief that we are to play for the love of the game.. Absurd. The notion only exists because the sport isn't one of the big 4 nor is there significant interest to draw ludicrous salaries in the domestic league. Love of the game. Grassroots, yes. Profesionally, no. Get out of town. I cannot stand this fictional David vs Goliath account of this "rivalry."
Well said. What turned me onto soccer? Being in Mexico during the 2002 WC. Down there it was everywhere. Huge celebrations/parties at the Glorieta Minerva in GDL, daily newspapers with breakdowns of every game, you couldn't get away from it. So I come back home and my brother tells me nobody gave 2 **********s about it here. We're laughed at for liking soccer here. Then you guys get mad about Mexicans coming here and being passionate about soccer while still rooting for their home country? Pathetic. I'll never really be a true Tri fan, nor will I truly be a USA fan. There's certain things I like and dislike about both teams, but I'd like to see both teams succeed without anybody being killed.
Very nice, and also, well said. Folks I am not Tri hater, I just don't like bad behavior, the sun will shine on Mexico again. Ok now I am really out!
Shaster I commend you for your attempt. But here lies the problem. Most US fans (at least the one in their mid 20s and older) think that they are self righteous and that by defualt, American soccer players are all classy and incapable of hard tackles, retaliation, pushing and shoving, etc The exact same play that is commited by one opposing player will be magnified and be refered to as dirty. The US player can committ the same exact foul but its refered to as intensity or being physical. I dont know where this starts (i have a pretty good idea). I know that this has been brought up before, but part of it has to do with the soccer mom culture. Many can stroll back into thier middle school years and probabaly at one point or another heard the the following remarks: "If you are afraid of the baseball, soccer tryouts are around the corner" "If you dont like to get tackled, soccer tryouts are around the corner" "Hurry up, we will be late for your sister's soccer game" This type of garbage was said too many times. Soccer became the alternative "non-contact" sport for the melodramatic soccer mom. And the soccerplexes grew at a significant rate in the burbs and soccer became the most praticed youth sport in America. But the problem was that it became to feminine and stripped of its physical nature. Soccer, by nature, requires contact, because the presence of hands is inexistant. [Side Note: I remember when my father was moved to the US and i started school in the US. I remember that there was this player from South America (i believe Bolivia) in my PE class. The week we had to play soccer, we played a scrimmage. Well, this kid was playing defense. An attack was forming and the player dove with both feet. The player touch nothing but the ball, and as a result the attacking player was stopped and fell to the ground after stepping on the ball. The PE coach got up and yelled at the kid and told him that was illegal and told him to get off the field. How was that illegal and could this type of teaching lead American players/fans to think that it is a non contact sport?] So with kids constantly being brainwashed that it soccer is a non contact sport, they grew up condemning other styles of soccer that were more physical. I am not refering to strength, but physicality and the aamount of contact. I love baseball. I grew up playing it and prefered it over soccer. But to think it was more physical than soccer is ridiculous. But that is what many kids are brought up to think. Baseball, Basketball, Hockey, Basketball are all seen as phycial sports, and are tuaght if the opponant gets in your face, back him down. There is a reason why there are unwritten rules in baseball and other major american sports. Talking about other major american sports brings me to the next point--Rivalries. In American sports, when the dodgers/giants, yankees/redsoxs, etc face each other in these intense rivalries, a brawl of some sort of altercation IS expected. Sure, afterwards all parties say the normal cliches, "we are sorry you had to see that" "kids dont need to watch that" but people still expect that and want those altercations. Now, how can American and MLS fans state that they want an intense rivalry with Mexico, but condemn "intense" behaviour that is expressed my the "rival". There is a reason why America-Chivas, Real-Barza, Celtic-Rangers, Brzil-Argentina games, etc are considered to be "intense". Now, another point about the feminizing the game in America. America must be the only country where the men compete and feel threatened by the women. I am not trying to turn this into a gender issue, but the point is that when the game is perceived to be feminine, contact and "bad" behavior seem very unsportsmanlike I dont want to generalize all American fans or MLS fans, but these are very valid points as to why some think what is foul play. As stated in another thread, the different style of officiating in Concacaf is a reason why many games get out of hand. Concacaf officiating is bad. Many refs come from federations that are semiprofessional. The soccer culture also dictates what a ref will allow. Some allow cussing directed at them, some allow hard contact below the knees, some allow holding, some allow shoulder charges, some allow pushing and shoving, etc. I can understand an American player losing his top if he gets ejected because he cusses at a Mexican ref. I can also understand a central american lose his top if he gets ejected by a mexican ref if he went below the knees, etc
All that psychological mumbo jumbo still won't change the fact that Guatelmoc Blanco is a beast... A BEAST I TELL YOU! Boy needs to be commited to the beast assylum! Look at the mans face you can tell he drank way too much tequila when he was 5. I know I'm out, I'm out... foot is out the door...
Look, I'll tell you all one thing: No matter who you support, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Two of my favorite players are LMVcP and Captain America. But look at what each other has done. We don't need to rehash what the first has done, and my friends who live in Guadalajara hate Donovan for peeing on the field at Jalisco. What I'm saying is you can't hate one and worship the other for their bad behavior, and this can be attributable to all players from the US and Mexico.
But MLS is a very physical league itself. Due to the way it runs, many of defenders are in lower salaries and have more "bits" than skills. So in that case, the taunting/baiting stuff are very normal. Carlos Bocanegra went to a two feet up tackle in EPL and being red-carded and suspended for few more games. Well, I saw that happens many times in the MLS. I think many of fans actually have problem with "dive" than kicking someone. The reason I brougt up the theory about "if Mexico wins, everything is fine, if they lose, then they will do some bad thing". In Dallas, Mexico lost 0:1 to US, In Denver, Mexico lost 0:1 to US, in Mexico City, Mexico lost 1:2 to Costa Rica, and also lost 1:3 to Honduras. I didn't see any described bad behaviors there. And the old Captain of Mexico (the one retired, not the young hot-head Marquez) is probably one of the most classy player in the world. Probably I just don't like generalization for a few players or a few games.
If you threw something on me No, actually, there were dozens of projectiles launched in my direction. I didn't really care about that sh** being thrown on me because I was old enough to handle it, but my dad (die-hard Tri/Chivas fan) and my 7-year-old brother (used to idolize Romario) were there and they got a ton of stuff on them too even though they were innocent bystanders. It was me, my brothers and two of my bro's friends who are black. We sat about, well, how can I explain... we were to the upper right of the goal when Hernandez scored. All I know is when hell broke loose, it erupted. I was waving my US flag before the game and at first it was all good but I don't remember if it was before or during the Brazil game, but it was on. I was to say the least. And to top it off, my bro's black friends weren't soccer fans but we talked them into going. I don't think we converted anybody into soccer fans that night
Since some have mentioned the US-Mex game in WC2002... I always loved the cleats to the knee by Reyna on Luna in the second half, and some other key fouls that went uncalled by that incompetent ref. Not the least of which was O'Brien's (admittely good) impression of a goalkeeper. These are always glossed over or outright denied by US fans. When those go the other way, one never hears the end of it, "dirty mexicans." Especially the O'Brien thing, if that had happened the other way around, how much you wanna bet many USMNTPTA fans would probably be talking about 'how mexican players are such cheats and can't win within the rules'
Sabio its easy just look at how they b!tch about germanys handball in the area in the very next game...it caused them a chance to tie....you never hear the end of it...but the handball in the mexico game, thats a different story
Because the John O'Brien handball was in any way shape or form comparable to Luis Hernandez kicking Peter Nowak in the eye while Nowak was on the ground. Maliciously trying to injure an opponent is completely different from any other offense. Hacking someone down is different from some of the stuff Blanco has pulled. There are a few bad apples that have played for Mexico over the past 6 years and they have earned their reputation. Contrast them to players like Jared Borghetti. Being Mexican doesn't make you a villain, but there have been some that have lined up for Mexico. This may change in the future and the US may have the thugs, but as of the last 6 years Mexico has had some bad apples.
Tecos, Yup but notice how they don't causally relate the German handball to an overall quality of the German race
Not only that, but the US was awarded a penalty in second half stoppage time that was converted into the winning goal. I didn't see the game, but the box score looks awfully fishy.
very true sabio...probably has something to do with the fact that the germans let so many americans play in their 3rd division...
Well I've never seen this alleged act by Luis Hernandez but I'll take your word for it. How hard did he kick him? Was a lot more than a nudge? What did Nowak have a black eye or something? I never saw Hernandez be a malicious player, never. I watched him all throughout his MFL career and Tri career. The one thing he had going on was that he did have a tendecy to dive, moreso later in his career, when his speed was going. You'll never get me to defend some of Blanso's antics even though he was a great player. I've seen waaaay too many US players hack down our guys real hard and late to believe you're all saints (what others have implied perhaps not you), especially because the US guys are often bigger which makes it soooo tough of them to do.
I was there as well. A lot of unruly Mexican fans rained all sorts of objects on the American players' heads as they exited into the tunnel. But fans are fans, and I saw much worse behavior from L.A. Raiders fans (when they were still here). But my gripe is more about the players. I agree with some of the posters who point out that fouling and cheap shots cuts both ways. What's up with the refusal to shake hands after the match? This seems to now be a permanent part of the Mexican teams' demeanor. The tradition in soccer has always been-the match is over, whatever happened on the field stays there, good match win or lose. I've coached a number of youth teams (predominantly Latino, BTW) where after a hard fought loss to a bitter rival the kids just do not want to shake hands with their opponents. I never ever accept this behavior. If a kid refuses to line up and shake hands, he sits on the bench the next time. And I gently ask him, "Do you know why you're here?" "Yes, coach." "And you don't like being on the bench?" "No, coach." "So what are you going to do next game?" You better believe that kid always shook hands after that. What is so difficult about shaking hands? Enquiring minds need to know.
Well. There is nothing really dirty about a handball. Most people here have said your team is dirty. If you want to go ahead and make the connection to Mexican people as a whole, that's your decision. One thing I'll never forget is when Mexico played the USA in the biggest sporting event in the world. The US won the game 2-0.
Has my vote for the most stupid quote of the year, who wants to make this their new sig??? In my book a handball in the box, where the guy very intentionally reached out to PUNCH the ball away is cheating hence "dirty"
Nowak got really messed up. I have the game on tape somewhere and it was the best game I have ever seen involving MLS teams. Nowak was on the ground and Luis Hernandez kicked him really hard. I think gave him a concussion. For the offense Luis Hernandez was banned from playing again in the US Open Cup. There is a lot of bad blood between the two teams and there have been a lot of "hard" tackles. I think those go both ways and are understandable in the passion of the moment. I just think that El Matador and Blanco are beyond anything else betweent he two teams.