The Union v The Clash [or, "Should I Stay or Should I Go"]

Discussion in 'Philadelphia Union' started by OleySOB, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. OleySOB

    OleySOB Member

    Apr 13, 2011
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    My opinion:
    Keep: M. Farfan, G. Farfan, MacMath, Jack Mac, Okugo, Valdes, Williams
    (this is our young core, and 7/11 starters for the next few years)
    If the offers great: Gaddis, Hoffman, Hoppenot
    Everyone else is fair game, even the home growns, and until we see Soumare, he is also.

    New Striker- Jack Mac
    Garfan- ^Marfan- Okugo- New mid
    New L Back- Soumare(we will see)- Valdes- Williams
    Mac Math

    We bring in Zarek Valentin to play left back, an Eric Hassli (type player) for a new striker, and give Brek Shea a change of scenery. Playoffs.
     
  2. Dills

    Dills Moderator
    Staff Member

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jun 6, 2006
    Southampton|PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed, and I'm sure the names/faces will change depending on whether Hackworth's interim tag is removed or a new coach is brought in. I'd think that many/most of the players that have any connection to the Nowak-regime could be let go to further sever the ties. Then again, I'd hate for a second consecutive roster overhaul prior to next season.

    And speaking of home growns, anyone hear the announcers call Hoppenot a HG during last night's game?

    -EDIT-

    Watching the live Cahill presser. Kind of irritates me to see other teams splashing the cash on a "big name" player who can actually improve the roster. Granted, we had that with the Mondragon/Valdes intro at Fado, Freddy's presser last summer, and even Soumare's introduction a few weeks ago, but still.
     
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  3. LINETRASH

    LINETRASH Member+

    Jul 19, 2011
    Philadelphia
    Club:
    Sunderland AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jack Mac is another one who can be moved on for me..........his passing is horrible and his decision making worse.......if his salary is going up next season then we need to get rid and get someone physical upfront.
     
  4. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My guesses as to who stays, and who departs at the end of the season:

    Stays:
    Valdes - Nat Team call up scares me though (camp is in Spain), could become target for La Liga sides.......
    Torres - $$ invested to get him outright, he's not going anywhere, plus could/should fit into Adu's spot
    Martinez - $$ invested to get him, seems to be a good fit in Hack's system
    Hoppenote
    McInnerney
    M Farfan
    G Farfan - due for a raise
    Okugo - heir apparent to Carroll, and solid coverage for CB's
    Lahoud - good player, good team guy, fits our system
    Williams
    Soumare - just signed
    Hernandez (HG) - should be competing for a spot in the 18 consistently next season
    Pfeffer (HG) - Still only what 17?
    McLaughlin (HG) - should be in line to compete for consistent PT next season as a sub/spot starter
    MacMath
    Hoffman (GA) - doesn't count against the cap, lots of potential
    Gaddis - good depth player, could develop into a good RB/LB for us
    Jordan

    Likely to be back, but could be moved on/released:
    Carroll - most likely back, but wouldn't be surprised if he's moved with Okugo's emergence
    Konopka - could be back
    Harrison - copuld be back
    Pajoy - has grown on me, but he's expensive and we need strikers who score. Good team guy though

    Likely to be sold:
    Adu - wouldn't be surprised if he's back though, but could be loaned out until April/May in Europe

    Will be back, but I believe in a coaching role within the organization:
    Albright - natural role for him it seems

    Looks to be on the outs:
    Perlaza - clearly a move that the old regime wanted, and doesn't seem to be in Hackworth's plans
    Gomez - good player, but doesn't seem to fit Hackworth's system/desired playing style
    Witkowski - Maybe he's back, but with more draft picks this year, will likely be cut due to numbers/competition
    Lopez - unless he's on a guaranteed multi-year contract, and in that case he'll be loaned out/traded
    Daniel - doesn't fit Hackworth's system, and add in his Visa issues preventing him from playing in Canada..........

    So that's my take. We really need a striker who's ruthless in the box, and a midfielder who is a combination of Lahoud and Okugo (boundless energy, has some bite, and a good distributor - this could be G Farfan if we can....). A solid contributor/starting caliber fullback (preferably a LB) that would allow G Farfan to play in the midfield.
     
    TonyClarkDOOP and Dills repped this.
  5. Dills

    Dills Moderator
    Staff Member

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jun 6, 2006
    Southampton|PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This was brought up in the Player Rumor & Movement thread, but I wanted to pull it out and try to have a discussion regarding Union players currently on the roster and, of those, who should be locks to continue on after this season, who is on the bubble, and who should plan to starting packing his bags and plan to spend next season elsewhere.*

    *I'd like to keep incoming player rumors etc to the other "official" thread.

    That said, here's my broken-down roster (in alphabetical order). Keep in mind that this is purely my opinion, so ymmv:

    Stay (best player at their position and/or highly valuable as sub):
    • Carroll
    • M Farfan
    • G Farfan
    • Gaddis
    • Hoffman
    • Hoppenot
    • Konopka
    • MacMath
    • McInerney
    • Okugo
    • Soumare
    • Valdes
    • Williams
    Maybe (can hang around for depth, but there are better options out there):
    • Albright
    • Daniel
    • Harrison
    • Lahoud
    • Martinez
    • Pajoy
    • Torres
    Go (hasn't shown his value and/or doesn't seem to fit into Hack's system):
    • Adu
    • Gomez
    • Lopez
    • Perlaza
    Abstention/no opinon (young guys who haven't cracked the Starting XI):
    • Hernandez
    • Jordan
    • McLaughlin
    • Pfeffer
    • Witkowski
     
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  6. BuddhaWake

    BuddhaWake Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Philadelphia
    I can agree with this.
    I think Daniel is gone. Torres might be used as trade bait and Pajoy will definately stay unless he doesn't want to. I doubt the union will go out and buy better (ie more expensive) unless it drops on their laps and he's not as expensive as some of the talent out there.
    Adu will probably stay because he sells jerseys and maybe some seats for 1 time visitors. Plus who would want him? honestly. for his price and what he brings you would have to really trick someone. Gomez will probably go although I would like him to stay but I guess Hack doesn't has him in his plans.Agree with the rest.
    agree.
     
  7. Dills

    Dills Moderator
    Staff Member

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jun 6, 2006
    Southampton|PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do we know the details (i.e. length) of Adu's contract?

    Please say 18 months, please say 18 months, please say 18 months ...
     
  8. BuddhaWake

    BuddhaWake Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Philadelphia
  9. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I forget where I read it (possibly heard it in an interview) but I believe he's under contract until he's 24 or 25, because I recall there was mention that that would be a perfect age for him to have another try in Europe. At least that was his stated goal at the time he re-signed with MLS. Does anyone know/remember where this info was?
     
  10. LuckyStriker

    LuckyStriker Member+

    Favorite club? a German one..........
    Apr 14, 2010
    in exile-Statute of Limitations yet to expire
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    G: I'm OK with MacMath & whichever guy they view as #2. * I was also OK with Knighton and drafting Sapong, so............
    CB: Soumare /Valdes + TBA
    RB: Williams / Gaddis
    LB: TBA + Garfan

    DM: Carroll/ Okugo /Jordan
    LM: TBA/ Lahoud / Witkowski (Healthy look)
    RM: Marfan / Torres-(only because they bought the contract) Martinez-ditto

    LF Pajoy(bubble) / Hoffman
    ST: God/help us all
    RF: McInerney / Hoppenot

    *fill in with Dr. Pfeffer, McLaughlin, Hernandez et al.
     
  11. miked9

    miked9 Member+

    May 4, 2000
    Philadelphia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Untouchable
    1) Valdes
    2) Williams
    3) Soumare
    4) Okugo

    Only for the Right Price
    5) M. Farfan
    6) Carroll
    7) MacMath
    8) McInerney
    9) Martinez

    Make Us an Offer...We'll Listen
    10) Adu
    11) Gomez
    12) Torres
    13) G. Farfan
    14) Daniel
    15) Hoppenot

    Take Him, Please
    16) Pajoy
    17) Albright
    18) Perlaza
    19) Lopez

    Whatever
    20) Konopka
    21) Jordan
    22) Hoffman
    23) Lahoud
    24) Witkowski
    25) Hernandez
    26) Harrison
    27) McLaughlin
    28) Pfeffer
    29) Gaddis

    Sort of damning that there are so many players in the 'whatever' category.
     
  12. BuddhaWake

    BuddhaWake Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Philadelphia
    and Adu, where does he fit in on your list?
     
  13. miked9

    miked9 Member+

    May 4, 2000
    Philadelphia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ah, left him off. I put him in "Make us an offer" because I don't think he's so poor that he'd be worth taking a 75 cents on the dollar for him.

    Problem with him (and Torres, really) is that shoehorning them into the 4-3-3/4-5-1 is only going to drive their prices down, so it'd be extraordinarily hard to get value back.
     
  14. Doop

    Doop Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know, other than letting Harrison and Knopka go try and get a starting spot elsewhere, paying league minimum for those two guys is about as good of a deal as you can get.
     
  15. UnionBulldog

    UnionBulldog Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Ridley Park
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I might actually move the Farfan's up one group each in your list, McInerney down one. The 3 HGs aren't really whatevers as they aren't even 19 (or barely are) yet and due to their HG status they don't impact the team as much as others. They have a lot of upside to them. Albright I think is done as a player after this year. Hoffman as a GA would be better fit in the We'll listen group or price is right.
     
  16. local136RiverRat

    Oct 9, 2010
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    There is no one on the team that I wouldn't move depending on the offer. The players I would be most hesitant to move would be Farfans, Macmath and Valdes.
     
  17. miked9

    miked9 Member+

    May 4, 2000
    Philadelphia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, the Farfans are a tough call. To me Michael Farfan is sort of like Nick LaBrocca. He's a very good player, and he probably has a higher ceiling than LaBrocca...but is he really going to boss the midfield for a contender? I'd be surprised, though I would have said the same thing about Zusi, so we'll see. I'm not looking to get rid of him, but I don't think he's untouchable either. For Gabe - he's an excellent 1v1 attacker, but as a left back he is still a liability defensively. This isn't really his fault, as he could probably be an asset as a left mid in a 4-4-2, but with a 4-5-1/4-3-3 he might not be the best fit. Then again just about everyone in the league could use a left back upgrade. Morrow, Dunivant and Sinovic might be the best there are right now.

    I could see McInerney sliding down as well--but on the other hand goal-poachers have real value. Look at San Jose, with 3 guys that don't seem to be very good (Gordon, Lenhart, Wondo) but find ways to score goals. Twellman was also like that. I think the Union hold on to him for a year to find out if he's more Wondo or Justin Braun.

    I think you're right that the HG's will stay and the Union should continue to invest in them. But if they cut them tomorrow I wouldn't be up in arms about it, because it's not like we've seen anything that suggests they're going to be the next Andy Najar. I feel the same about Hoffman. He's surplus to the Union's needs so they could easily deal him, but since he's GA it's not like it hurts us to have him. I don't really mind either way on that.

    The Union are in a tough spot, as they have a lot of good players but aside from Williams and Valdes, nobody that you'd say "this guy is one of the best in the league". At the same time you can't just turn over your roster indefinitely (a la TFC). We've seen the results of reckless turnover ourselves, this season. They need to upgrade where they can, and work to develop guys like Okugo & McInerney as much as they can.
     
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  18. Dills

    Dills Moderator
    Staff Member

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jun 6, 2006
    Southampton|PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think parity keeps that from happening for any team in this league.

    -EDIT-

    I think it's pretty telling that the Union doesn't even get a mention in this article.

    The Five Most Efficient Goalscorers in MLS
     
  19. EmeraldDawn

    EmeraldDawn Member+

    May 11, 2008
    Brick, NJ
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Untouchable aside from a very very good transfer fee overseas
    1) Valdes
    2) Williams
    3) Soumare
    4) Okugo
    5) M. Farfan
    6) MacMath
    Guys who should be a part of the team going forward
    7) Carroll
    8) McInerney
    9) Gaddis
    10) G. Farfan
    11) Hoppenot
    12) Martinez
    13) Hernandez (HG)
    14) McLaughlin (HG)
    15) Pfeffer (HG)

    Should probably move on
    16) Adu
    17) Gomez
    18) Torres
    19) Daniel

    Bench guys, if they leave I won't lose sleep
    20) Konopka
    21) Lahoud
    22) Witkowski
    23) Hoffman (GA)
    24) Jordan
    25) Harrison

    Failed experiments.
    26) Pajoy
    27) Albright
    28) Perlaza
    29) Lopez

    These are my rankings. Yes, they are in numerical order of their value to the team moving forward. The HG guys are ranked that highly because of their HG designation. Of #26-29, I think Albright will retire, and the other three need to be cut. I would like to see something, anything from Witkowski and Jordan before their fates are decided, but with Witkowski especially, the writing is probably already on the wall.
     
  20. local136RiverRat

    Oct 9, 2010
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Am I alone in thinking that Pajoy hasn't been a failure?
     
  21. BuddhaWake

    BuddhaWake Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Philadelphia
    I don't think he has either but Nowak was using him incorrectly as a lone stricker.
     
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  22. DaMunk

    DaMunk Member

    Feb 7, 2003
    Philadelphia/STX
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    US Virgin Islands
    5 goals and 2 assists in 19 games makes one a failure? :confused:
     
  23. Doop

    Doop Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess it depends on how you read the expectations. Honestly thinking a ~$250k a year striker would be the next coming of Messi is a bit of a reach. I think he's done ok, but like anyone else nobody is safe.
     
  24. EmeraldDawn

    EmeraldDawn Member+

    May 11, 2008
    Brick, NJ
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He (Pajoy) has been an unmitigated disaster. He makes awful decisions inside the box, he refuses to use his size and strength to his advantage, he's a liability offensively on a team that struggles to create offense. The $200k he gets paid can be spent much more wisely, imo. And while I have the Inquirer's salary article open, add the $295k Gabriel Gomez makes, and the $125k that Porfirio Lopez makes, they would have just over $600k to play with. That's almost two full DP slots.

    It should also be noted that MacMath, McInerney and Okugo are all probably going to graduate from the GA program this offseason, and some of the high salary guys I mentioned in the post above are going to need to be jettisoned just to create salary cap space for those three.
     
  25. miked9

    miked9 Member+

    May 4, 2000
    Philadelphia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, you're never going to have a Real Madrid or Bayern equivalent in MLS (thank goodness), but some teams do have top-tier (MLS) talent at multiple positions:

    LA: Keane, Donovan, Beckham, Juninho, Gonzalez, Dunivant
    RSL: Saborio, Espindola, Morales, Beckerman, Borchers, Olave, Rimando
    KC: Kamara, Zusi, Espinoza, Collin, Nielsen
    RBNY: Henry, Cooper, Cahill, McCarty, Pearce

    Obviously that's not the only concern or even the most important - San Jose and Houston are doing really well with chemistry and grit and will. But it doesn't hurt to have a top 5 guy at multiple positions. I think Williams is a top 5 right back, and Valdes is top 10, maybe top 5. And you're totally right that not having a ruthless finisher is a huge problem. That's partially why I think they have to figure out how good McInerney can be.
     

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