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Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by FuTbALLeR8395, Dec 3, 2006.
who was the best soccer player to ever walk the earth?
my opinion PELE
Maradona. The only player who ever was one with the ball.
Pele. The only player who had achieved supreme technical mastery of absolutely any offensive skill.
This debate between Maradona and Pele will go forever......
Pele was the Ultimate during his era as was Maradona......
But the best ultimate soccer/futbol player to ever walk the earth is Maradona as Pele had players to win him 2 World Cups (1958,1962), while Maradona took the 1st World Youth Title, too bad he was not chosen to join the 1978 winning side as he was considered too young, and he won the 1986 World Cup by himself. Maradonna by far takes it.
By far ? Please... Good for you that you favor Maradona, but "by far" is a very bold statement.
Just one question keeps nagging me : why exactly having better teammates automatically makes a player worse than the other ?
I Know a lot (and I mean a lot) will disagree, but I rate Maradona, Cruyff and Beckenbaeur all ahead of Pele. To me those 1000 goals isn't that impressive, and I know Europe wasn't AS dominant a football force as it is now in comparison to the Brazillian league, but still. Not to mention he may not have those WC titles if it weren't for having some almost equally good teammates. Not saying having good players with him makes him worse, jsut saying he did have a lot of support that could have made him look better.
Best by name Best by nature
I've often wondered how any of the above players would stand against todays players.
Would they be able to stand out against the far greater number of players with pace and skill in todays game? Would they just simply blend in? Or would they just all be considered good, solid players?
I think you can take a Maradona in his prime and play him today and because of his strong low center of gravity quickness he may still stand out.
Pele, I think, could be one of the best, a top striker along with others but not stand alone the way he did. Beckenbauer and Best might only be considered great consistant players but, IMO, certainly might not stand alone.
It's always harder to look good against other great players. As the game continues to expand around the world, as does technology and training techniques, I think there are far more great players today than there was 20 plus years ago.
Who's to say they wouldn't have adpated, because we live in a very different world and football is also very different.
I agree, they might have. Highly driven people try and find a way to stand out.
Once you take away joke friendlies and unoffical matches from Pelé's numbers then his overall record, while still impressive, doesn't carry the same weight. Factor in spending most of his career in regional leagues and only being named South American Footballer of the Year once and you begin to wonder. Meanwhile great scorers like Müller, Bican, Romário and Puskás are often forgotten. So when discussing Pelé you need to look beyond the bogus goal figure.
Even without friendlies, Pele still has 765 official goals. There are very few players who come close.
And if for Pele you bring the argument of weak leagues, then what can be said of Bican, Puskas or even Romario ?
About the SA player of the year, don't distort the facts. That award was created in 1971. Pele was 6th in 1971, which was the worst year in his career, second in 1972 (behind Cubillas) and first in 1973. The question arises : if a 32-33 years old Pele, at the end of his career, damaged by all the injuries sustained and worn out by the huge number of games played, was good enough to come ahead of players like Tostao, Rivelino, Jairzinho or Cubillas in the best years of their careers, then what kind of player was Pele in HIS best years before 1970 ? The question is scary.
I didn't distort anything and the question is subjective. Of course, the main thrust of my post was to dispute the goal figure that is regularly banded around. I see you have failed to add any comments in relation to the regional leagues. Bare in mind that I am not anti-Pelé by any means, just adding some points for discussion.
There really is no correct answer to all of this.
Maradona had amazing ball skills
pele could finish the ball in almost any way imaginable.
End of story
Ummmm, right ok.
Here is a thread in which tpmazembe basically showed that the emphasis on the leagues that Pele played in was in fact a joke argument. (The last couple of posts on the page).
At the time you did not put up any contrary arguments other than over the calibre of goalkeepers.
In this thread he called you out when you stated that you put Beckenbauer and Di Stefano above Pele and Maradona and you went strangely quiet.
In fact if you do a simple search on BigSoccer for tpmazembe and Pele it seems to be time and again him debating with you, but you never were willing to engage in a discussion with him.
To be perfectly honest these arguments have all been played out before, and I cannot see this one adding anything further.
Unless you actually have something to contribute ...
Ever wondered how any of todays players would stand against players from the past considering that the pitches resembled cabbage patches, the balls were heavier and the fact that getting the sh*t kicked out of you was part and parcel of the game....more pace in todays game, definitly, more skill, not so sure unless your classing skill as step overs and party tricks and not touch technique and being able to run with a ball, i'd love to see how long C. Ronaldo would have lasted back in the 60/70's before his legs were broken! Not that i dont like the kid i think he is an exeptional talent
Great players are players who stood above the rest regardless of whether they could play now or not. I dont think there are far more great players today, fitter & faster yes but not great......just a thought
Ya i have and i thought that the style of play has changed considerably. Why?
1. Minds have changed to thinking "the cooler i can make this look, the cooler i will be
2. The goalies have changed as well, this is relevent, because players actually have to attempt a finish in more interesting ways that the goalie does not expect.
How would Maradona and Pele do against Messi and Ronaldinho, i dont know, and i dont think that anyone ever will.
Messi shouldn't be uttered in the same breath as the above...at least yet.
In the first thread I agreed at the time aside from the goalkeeper point and I didn't even check the other thread after I had posted, thus only one reply. I just did a simple search to pass the time and your statement is false.
I want to look at the quality of player Pelé played with for Santos and against in São Paulo in more detail before making a decision one way or the other. If we just look at the Brazilian squad of the time as an example, of the players who played in the São Paulo regional league all were team mates of Pelé at Santos (Carlos Alberto, Zito, Pepe and Gilmar). I'm sure I read that somewhere and until I have had the time to examine that league in greater detail, I feel it's naive to instantly accept what tpmazembe and others have posted.
Ok you get back to me and tell me what league Corinthians, Palmeiras, Portuguesa and Sao Paulo were playing in at the time (the clue for Sao Paolo is in the name!).
I dare say it'll take you another two years, like it has taken you to get back to tpmazembe!
You are right, but Messi is a good player, and probably will be if and when he retires, if he keeps all of this up.
Yeah it's the same with Rooney and C.Ronaldo though. But because they're all so good now doesn't automatically mean they're going to get better and better. Some people have different peaks and reach their plateaux quite early. This might be as good as it gets from all of them.