The Two Escobars

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Toolhead, Jun 22, 2010.

  1. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Had nothing to do w/ LA other than being a massive metropolis in the US.
     
  2. ...In my defense

    Feb 11, 2006
    I'm not sure who asked that question but I've heard several former Colombian internationals say that this particular team (1994 WC squad) was on a high after smashing Argentina 5-0 in Buenos Aires. Seems like some of the players never adjusted for the WC.

    I agree that Colombia needed a wide game but that goes back to what I said earlier, the team never adjusted (tactically) to the rigors of the WC.

    Romania did the same thing in the first game, cut off the passing lanes, bunkered down and hit Colombia on the counter. Needless to say, the Colombians were not prepared for it.

    As far as Valderrama goes, the sport seems to change every eight or ten years when it comes to tactics. One could argue that having Valderrama on the field was a gamble given his lack of defensive duties but at the time, he was one of the best 10's in the world and with such prolific goalscorers like Asprilla and "tren" Valencia, it's not hard to imagine why Maturana used Pibe as an "enganche".

    Valderrama was the South American player of the year going into the 94 WC....he certainly warranted all the praise he got. With that said, Andres Escobar and Leonel Alvarez made just as big an impact as the guys you mentioned. Colombia's strength was, pardon the redundancy, the way they played as a team.

    It kinda puts into perspective the kind of reach the cartels had back then.

    Sad stuff.
     
  3. chibchab

    chibchab Member

    Jul 8, 2002
    New Jersey
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why and how is that 'the question'?

    Colombia suffered, IMO, what many favored teams suffer. An opponent who doesn't come out of their shell until the favored team overcommits. Romania was lethal in this strategy and the US pulled off the upset resorting to the same strategy.

    In the end Colombia also had some shitty luck. They had several goal scoring opportunities against the US and Romania that one can't explain how the ball simply didn't go in.
     
  4. BigMo1234

    BigMo1234 Member

    Jul 21, 2008
    for me the most amazing part of this stellar documentary were the highlights of Nacional and the violence on the pitch towards referees and in the stands, and then the Colombia team "expressing" itself: namely Higuita's somersault/two-footed bicycle save of a long shot. Simply stunning.
     
  5. Colombolq

    Colombolq Member

    Jun 18, 2009
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It became known as the scorpion kick. He did it in a friendly against England. The English announcer couldn't believe it when he saw it.
     
  6. McGinty

    McGinty Member

    SKC/STL
    Aug 29, 2001
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I really enjoyed the documentary as well.

    I found it curious that Higuita's imprisonment was considered a major impact to the team, culminating in Cordoba's mistake on Hagi's goal. Maybe it wasn't necessary to mention it in the documentary, but Higuita wasn't immune to monumental errors as well.
     
  7. munichfan9

    munichfan9 BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Aug 7, 2005
    Burke, Virginia
    was that frank rijkaard they showed playing a game at pablo's ranch??
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just watched the documentary. Also thought it was well done and enlightening. The interviews were excellent.
     
  9. Flyin Ryan

    Flyin Ryan Member

    May 13, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To give an idea of how deep the Colombian drug influences were, even in our country, there were a half dozen or so Florida-based sportscar racers in the '80s that financed their racing via smuggling for the Colombian drug cartels up through Florida. A bit of real life Miami Vice. All of them were big-time players in sportscar racing (2 of the Whittingtons won the 24 Hours of Le Mans) and midfielders in Indycar (back when that was the #1 racing circuit in the U.S.)

    the Whittington Brothers (Don, Dale, Bill)
    John Paul Sr. and John Paul Jr.
    Randy Lanier
     
  10. nutbar

    nutbar New Member

    Apr 22, 2001
    Canada
    why wasn't Higuita on Colombia's 1998 squad?
     
  11. Sakatei

    Sakatei Member

    Jun 24, 2007
    But he did it in style.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO8_auA2TdQ"]YouTube- Roger Milla and Rene Higuita[/ame]
     
  12. CeltTexan

    CeltTexan Member+

    Sep 21, 2000
    Houston, TX USA
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Incredible and very well done documentary of the life and times of the Escobars in Columbia.
    I remember that day very well, was 18 that glorious Summer and had to wait tables that day we beat a powerful Columbia but with all the latinos in the house...we were up to the minute with the TV's and radio calls.
    I knew of the backstory but this ESPN effort blew the doors off what I had previously known from living it back that Summer of '94.
    Columbians are die hard nationalists, but then will kill each other at the drop of the hat. Very sad.
     
  13. u-17soccerfan

    u-17soccerfan Member

    Jun 22, 2005
    Woah, woah, woah, easy killer with the whole generalization of Colombians killing each other. Have you ever been down there? Just because people saw an ESPN special that sensationalizes some tragic events does not make them experts in Colombian society.

    Colombia is a country of 35 million people. Out of those 35 million, there's about 2-5,000 narcos, about 40,000 leftist guerrillas and about 300,000 of your assorted thieves, killers and general bad people. That leaves you with an extra 34 million and change of the most hard working, proud, nice, cultured and pleasant people you'll ever met.

    Generalizations are not nice, so let's not go there
     
  14. Dont Tread

    Dont Tread New Member

    Feb 22, 2006
    Terre Haute,IN
    You know what, you're right. When I think of Columbia I definitely DON'T think about drugs, or drug dealers. At all. Im sure I would feel completely comfortable walking down the street at night. :rolleyes:
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. u-17soccerfan

    u-17soccerfan Member

    Jun 22, 2005
    And muslim extremists think of Americans as "The Great Satan"... We're better than that.

    My only point is that making generalizations about an entire nation or group of people, throughtout history, has been shown to not be very accurate or constructive.

    I have really close friends that are Colombian, I've been to Colombia several times, and we have had Colombian-Americans that have worn the USSF Crest (Carlos Llamosa, Alejandro Bedoya and a ton of youth nats like Rodrigo Hidalgo and Diego Rastrepo). I can tell you from FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE that Colombias are not "die hard nationalists, but then will kill each other at the drop of the hat."

    I'll take my personal experience over any generalization, any day of the week.
     
  16. kylesoccer

    kylesoccer New Member

    Mar 24, 2004
    boston
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have taught and coached 2 students/players from Medillin who lived there during this time. They are wonderful kids with wonderful parents who love Colombia. They moved to the US in 1997. Don't throw everyone in one bundle. Many people love Americans but hate our government. Do you know that we are the most HATED country in the world? DO you think that is accurate? I don't either, so take each peron case by case. There are terrible people and terrible cities in every country in the world.
     
  17. eric_appleby

    eric_appleby Member+

    Jun 11, 1999
    Down East
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    First.
    Columbia is a university in NYC.
    Colombia is the nation in South America.

    As for walking at night, depends on the neighborhood. Just like the US.
     
  18. Deleted Account

    Dec 31, 2004
    True. But Don't Tread's point still stands. You can't imagine how sketchy it would get late at night on Riverside Drive between 124th and 125th. And the time I accidentally took the 2/3 express uptown from 96th and ended up having to traverse Morningside Park at 2 am to get home? Talk about white-knuckle time.

    No, seriously, though...Don't Tread is being an ignorant redneck.
     
  19. ArsenalMan305

    ArsenalMan305 New Member

    Aug 28, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    One of the playes profiled in the documentary named Chonto was my soccer coach for two years for the CTC Bandits in miami. :D He always told me about his days playing for columbia but i never beleived him. I saw this and was like :eek:
     
  20. testarazo

    testarazo New Member

    Aug 17, 2009
    South Margina
    Club:
    De Graafschap
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Repped. Some people are just born to be ignorant xenophobes, never realizing it's themselves who are scum. It's pretty pathetic.

    Can you imagine if the whole world assumed all 300 million Americans are like Elliot Spitzer/John Edwards/Mark Foley/Larry Craig/Glenn Murphy Jr./Bob Allen? Or like Paris Hilton/Nicole Ritchie/Lindsay Lohan/Joe Francis? Or like the Columbine/Virginia Tech/Red Lake/Northern Illinois/etc. shooters? Or like the people on the Jerry Springer show? Unfortunately, if they were talking about Don't Tread, they'd probably be right.
     
  21. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2002
    I thought the total opposite. I also saw the Killing Pablo and it was a great documentary. It really captured the feel of the chase for Pablo and had an accurate picture of it all. On the other hand this I thought did it better. They manage to show both sides of the story with Pablo and I don't think he ends up being sympathetic at all but it also shows how things aren't black and white. It shows how he got a lot of support by a lot of people stuff that you wouldn't get an idea from other documentaries. And yet it still reflected on him being horrible. The Killing Pablo story on the other hand, I feel was extremely sympathetic to Los PEPES. It almost made them out to be heroic. They interviewed Carlos Castaño way before he was killed and chopped up and he almost was shown as kind of in a heroic light. This documentary showed how they were bad humans too and how in the end, you end up betraying what you're supposed to be fighting.

    I really liked the documentary and their take on things. It reminds me of the point of one of my favorite documentaries, Bus 174 and how things aren't black and white at all and monsters are created and how different the views are of the same thing.
     
  22. CeltTexan

    CeltTexan Member+

    Sep 21, 2000
    Houston, TX USA
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With Brasil being the host in 2014, does CONMEBOL get 6 slots for the Mundial like Africa got this Summer with SA as host and 5 WCQ slots to be won.
    I ask this as with Uruguay's resurgance, and the likes of Argentina, Chile and Paraguay looking good moving forward for WCQ in 2012, there is the slot to be had with 6 for Colombia to get back into the swing of things over these next 4 years and get back to the World Cup. Thing is Ecuador and even a Venezuela has to be thinking the same thing and they have improved vastly in the last 15 years since Copa America '95
    Obvioulsy, getting the Colombia NT to the Mundial, it brings a lot of joy to a nation that needs some healing at many levels.


    Check.
    What I tossed out there was a snapshot, not generalization, of Colombian culture in 1994 which is looked upon by others around our planet like they do with...say Ireland, specifically Belfast in 1974, where people to this day find it easy to think that Irish, like Colombians, are folks in love with their land but will indeed kill their fellow Irish at the drop of the hat. This of course does not speak to all Irish but the real life images still stand out here in 2010.
    Thus, same with Colombia.
    It's understood it's not all but after that powerful ESPN doc it shows how love of country/pride in NT...caused one Cafetero to kill his fellow man that Summer of '94.
    Don't get humpty over someone's post with words Colombia, pride and murder all in the same sentence here at BSland, it's futbol in Las Americas were are talkin' about. Shit has and appears will continue to happen covering all 3 words on this side of our planet. Sal Cabanyas for example and what Paraguay had to endure this World Cup. Footballers get shot and shot at in our hemisphere. It's fuc{ed up but this is the lay of the land with footy in the Americas.
    On top of this, if you knew the Cafeteros on our boards, they are able to defend their own footballing culture just fine.
     
  23. ...In my defense

    Feb 11, 2006
    Christian Bale will play Major Jacoby in the upcoming movie Killing Pablo for all you Bowden fans out there.

    Personally, I would've preferred Matt Damon.
     
  24. purojogo

    purojogo Member

    Sep 23, 2001
    US/Peru home
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i think things have gotten a lot better in Colombia though (though things are still quite problematic....)

    For example look at Mexico's situation right now...it's not a matter of the people or organizations alone....It's all that effin drug money which makes a bunch of a-holes think they have a right to rule the world....throguh whichever means possible, unfortunately...

    There is always hope for improvement of things re: violence and drug cartels in Colombia and Mexico, heck Peru Bolivia as well etc.... or for that matter law enforcement on this side as well....
    FWIW, all of Latin America has dangerous places, areas depending on the time of day and who you are with.....Fact is Colombia has had a lot of crap to deal with the last 40+ years....

    Despite all this, their people remain among the most optimistic and happy people i've met....and Uribe (regardless of what one's politics may be) has done a great job when it comes to security issues.....Can it get better? For sure....Has it been a lot worse in the past? Certainly..... It is still one of the places i plan to visit in the near future....
     
  25. nealesk

    nealesk Member

    Dec 18, 2009
    Santa Fe, NM
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I got really excited the past week or so after seeing this so I went out and saw another soccer documentary

    Once in a Lifetime, the story of the new york cosmos.

    AWESOME WATCH
     

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