The Two Escobars

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Toolhead, Jun 22, 2010.

  1. Toolhead

    Toolhead Member

    Jul 6, 2003
    Williamsport, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Anyone else watching this? It's depressing as hell, but fascinating at the same time. Man, Columbia was one F'ed up place back then.

    Also I had forgotten how really talented Columbia were.

    And Pablo Escobar ... no need to really say anything about that man.
     
  2. el americano

    el americano Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Jun 9, 2006
    San Francisco
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As if it weren't still the kidnapping capital of the world? Where if you're stopped on a highway they might run your credit before deciding if you're worth ransom? There are still cartels, and there still is FARC. No need to qualify with "back then".

    It's been a while since there team was good though. I wonder why.
     
  3. Chizzy

    Chizzy Member+

    She/Her
    United States
    Aug 7, 2003
    Upper Left, USA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Soccer and drug money = deadly combo. Interesting documentary.
     
  4. boliviankidd622

    Apr 27, 2009
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    awesome movie...really makes you feel for those colombians on the national team that were scared for their families lives when they started losing
     
  5. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 23, 1999
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Man, I can't wait to go there next year for the U20 World Cup.

    It's already in my plans to go but it's scary
     
  6. CLEATS

    CLEATS New Member

    May 2, 2005
    Chilling stuff, i wish the own goal hadn't come against the US, poor Andres.
     
  7. dirty_09

    dirty_09 Member

    Apr 1, 2009
    brownsville
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Crazy stuff. semi-taints a great moment in our Soccer history. I remember the elation of that game, but truly feel for their Federation, their country, but especially all the innocent families affected.
     
  8. Chizzy

    Chizzy Member+

    She/Her
    United States
    Aug 7, 2003
    Upper Left, USA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I jumped and cheered when Andres scored the own goal against us, and I feel bad when he got murdered. Now I feel x10 bad now after watching this documentary. Sad story.
     
  9. IncredibleStan1

    Feb 17, 2009
    Tacoma WA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yeah this is a trending topic on twitter and was like himmmmm i'm out of town with no cable at the moment hope i can catch it on a torrent somewhere or something
     
  10. Toolhead

    Toolhead Member

    Jul 6, 2003
    Williamsport, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    What?, really there are still cartels in Columbia? Who knew? The murder rate "back then" was staggering, that (and the nacro-terrorism) is what I was referring to. Yeah Columbia is still a F'ed up place, but it was a "special" kind of F'ed up then.
     
  11. trip76

    trip76 Member

    Jul 17, 2007
    North East USA
    really good watch.
     
  12. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Awesome documentary that traces the rise and fall of narco money and futbol.

    I had never seen some of the interviews from 2004, and you can see in their faces that they were freaking out.

    I have always wondered why Colombia just dropped like a ton of bricks after '94. A lot of talent just stopped playing, the cartels bailed out on soccer (despite the money-laundering possibilities) b/c of the government spotlight, fans got seriously disillusioned and stop going to games.

    No top players, no deep pocketed owners, no fans = decline in Colombian futbol.
     
  13. brandonplaysguitar

    brandonplaysguitar New Member

    Apr 4, 2009
    Minneapolis, USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was watching this too! Extremely interesting.
     
  14. boliviankidd622

    Apr 27, 2009
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    they have top players but bad coaching and just bad luck...
     
  15. Jwaksman

    Jwaksman New Member

    Jul 7, 2007
    USA
    Club:
    Maccabi Haifa FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Colombia did make the '98 World Cup, but have been incredibly close without making it in the most recent three Cups. They lost out on goal differential in 2002, and then missed out by one point in qualification in 2006 and 2010.

    It was a good film, but I thought they got dangerously close to making Pablo Escobar into something of a hero. They even argued at the end that Andres Escobar wouldn't have been killed if Pablo were still alive. Yet this after they earlier show Pablo having a referee murdered because he blamed the guy for a loss for his club team.

    Sure, Pablo gave millions to the poor, but he did it to build his power base. It's important to remember what a monster he was.
     
  16. SAMBA

    SAMBA Member

    Sep 3, 2004
    New Jersey
    I thought the same thing as well, as if we didn't have enough Americans with cliche attitudes about the sport already. Especially during that time.
     
  17. WaltonFire

    WaltonFire Member

    Apr 22, 2006
    Indianapolis
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thing is, a documentary can only use the words of other people. It is a lense on the past, not a soapbox for the directors opinions. Many of the poor in Columbia did consider Pablo Escobar a great man, it doesn't mean they're right, but a good documentary shouldn't cover up the parts the viewers don't like.
     
  18. Jwaksman

    Jwaksman New Member

    Jul 7, 2007
    USA
    Club:
    Maccabi Haifa FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Yes, but they could choose to be more balanced in their interviews. I don't know if you've ever seen "The True Story of Killing Pablo", a documentary based on the Mark Bowden book (the same guy who wrote "Blackhawk Down"). It's a fascinating documentary that really goes into the history of the PEPEs, Pablo's people, as well as how involved US special forces were and how they tracked Pablo down, as well as rumors that it was a US special forces soldier who shot the kill shot to prevent another farce of Pablo in "prison". The film had interviews with Pablo's people, as well as with leaders from the PEPEs, and some of the Americans involved as well..

    Only having Pablo people talking about the horrible things the PEPEs did is one-sided. They should have interviewed some of the PEPEs to hear what they had to say.
     
  19. xTottixCorex

    xTottixCorex New Member

    Nov 12, 2006
    Indiana
    i liked it too. but i found it really interesting to see at the end where they said America de Cali were placed on the "clinton list" and have had no money for the most part of a decade cause of it
     
  20. xTottixCorex

    xTottixCorex New Member

    Nov 12, 2006
    Indiana
    well, considering that one of the people in the 30 for 20 claimed that it was a PEPE that killed Andres, idk if they would've gotten an interview
     
  21. dwsmith1972

    dwsmith1972 BigSoccer Supporter

    May 11, 2007
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess I feel somewhat similarly to what WaltonFire described. I feel like it was pretty nuanced and was not at all trying to portray Escobar as any sort of hero, but rather to reveal the many contradictions at play. That a brutal, murderous drug lord also provided a semblance of order...that a country with such an awful international reputation due to the drug trade came together in a quasi positive sense, attempting to transcend that reputation through a successful soccer team....whose success was linked to that same drug trade....How the awful, brutal, murderous drug lord was brought down by powerful international government interests collaborating with other awful, brutal murderous drug lords....

    The strength of the piece was, as others have noted, the interviews and footage. Such a range of interiviews. It was great to get the thoughts of the players and to see that 94 game which I remember so vividly, in such a different and dark light. It was a such a seminal moment in US soccer...I turned to my 15 yr old son and remarked that wow, from their perspective, the stakes were so much higher. My yearning for the development of US soccer on the world stage seemed trite and insignificant in comparison to the issues confronting the Colombian players. I felt a little guilty.

    The highlight for me was the footage and particularly the WCQ game in Argentina.

    Among the better documentaries I have ever seen.
     
  22. Jwaksman

    Jwaksman New Member

    Jul 7, 2007
    USA
    Club:
    Maccabi Haifa FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    The History Channel had no problem getting multiple leading PEPEs to speak on camera in the documentary I spoke about earlier. And as I said, most people believe the kill shot was delivered by an American.
     
  23. SoccerScout

    SoccerScout Member

    Jan 3, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    Internacional Porto Alegre
    Im watching it now.....

    Im stunned as I had never connected this story with the fact that the 89 Libertadores final between Nacional and Olimpia could have been between, Nacional and my team Internacional. But Inter lost to Olimpia in the Semis on PK's at home in Brazil after only needing a tie. During regulation time Inter lost after missing a PK that would have put them through to the finals against Nacional. So the game went to PKs and Olimpia prevailed.
     
  24. American Arsenal

    Jun 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    outstanding documentary.

    best 30 for 30 yet.
     
  25. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I was referring to what sparked the rapid decline. Several players straight up dropped out of soccer and were not there in '98 when they should/could have been.

    I think that was abundantly clear.

    Regarding "The True Story" documentary, which I've seen and thoroughly enjoyed, I think it's just a different movie and a different story.

    The story in this documentary was about 2 men who were pretty much deified by the ppl, and they reflect contradictory sides of poverty, justice and the modern nation of Colombia.

    I really think it makes quite clear that the marriage btw futbol and social justice was an abusive marriage of convenience that benefited the narcos that ultimately brought about the disintegration of Colombian society.
     

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