The (to be) best players of 2020s

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Sexy Beast, Aug 3, 2019.

  1. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Stats Per90

    Yamal
    Estêvão
    Mastantuono
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Stats Per90
    Shots + Key Passes + Dribbles + Defense (Tackles and Interceptions)

    Mastantuono
    Yamal
    Estêvão

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Why did you remove clearances from defense? Lol Let me guess. Maybe because Messi is short? Lol
     
  4. Letmepost

    Letmepost Member

    Arsenal
    South Korea
    Apr 11, 2023
    #504 Letmepost, May 21, 2025
    Last edited: May 21, 2025
    I'm guessing by the gulf between Jamal Musiala and Florian Wirtz (who has a higher average rating on WhoScored, and more polished in terms of decision making than Musiala), this is a re-interpretation of WhoScored data, that heavily emphasizes a player's ability to make a difference with the ball at the feet, rather than overall effectiveness or intelligence. I get the feeling that the defensive contributions were added as an afterthought, an inconsequential decoration of what he is really trying to point-out.

    I would assume dudes like Desire Doue, or whoever else that is nicknamed the "next Neymar" would score better than players who might be more effective overall.

    I don't know what exactly Trachta10 attempts to measure with this re-configuration of WhoScored data, but it does seem to be a passion of his that has re-occuring themes. Maybe this is his way of searching for the next potential Lionel Messi.
     
  5. Salah, Benzema, Kane and Lewandowski
     
  6. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    no love for
    Kylian Mbappe
    KDB
    Erling Haaland
    Lionel Messi

    ?
     
  7. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    France have such a great team for the rest of the decade. Barcola, Doué, Emery, Olise, Mbappé, Dembelé, Saliba, Kounde. Tchouameni and Camavinga to a less degree. But the forwards are a joy to watch
     
  8. Sorry, i forgot KDB.
     
  9. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Carreras vs Yamal



    @carlito86 looks like Ronaldo vs Thuram lol. Except that Yamal at least tries to drible him (and fails everytime)
     
    carlito86 repped this.
  10. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Mohammed salahs Wikipedia page has been given a nice update
    IMG_9372.jpeg

    I had a read through his wiki page earlier this year and the bio was not exactly the same as it is now.


    Who agrees with all 3 claims?


    He is widely regarded as being one of the best players of his generation

    one of the best African players of all time


    one of the greatest wingers in the history of the sport


    Is there now a ‘consensus’ on all of these claims and if there was a pushback on any of them which one would it be?
     
  11. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Yamal has 22 dribble attempts but he only dribled past Carreras once. On the other hand Carreras dispossessed Yamal over 10 times. It's like Walker locking Vini Jr and Mbappé. Except that Yamal is a better dribbler since he doesn't rely only at his speed to dribble
     
  12. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Man, are you seriously that narrow-minded?
    A clearance is an action that doesn’t hold as much value as a tackle or an interception, and on top of that, the number of clearances is very big, so it would completely distort the total. The only fair and coherent way would be, for example, to assign it a value of 0.1 points per clearance.
     
  13. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    First 80 Official Games

    Estêvão vs Yamal
    [​IMG]
     
    victorcalello38 repped this.
  14. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    So now it's about "value" and "distortion"? Funny how that logic kicks in only when Messi is at a disadvantage. You didn’t say a word about "distortion" when counting final third passes or dribbles that lead nowhere. Clearances may not be glamorous, but they matter—especially for players who aren't parked upfield waiting for service. If you want to assign weights, fine—but conveniently removing an entire defensive action just because it’s "too many" sounds like cherry-picking.

    Also, let me guess: if Messi had 300 clearances, you’d be calling it “elite spatial awareness under pressure.”
     
  15. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Olise vs Inter: 1.18 xA
    Yamal vs Inter: 0.44 xA
     
  16. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #516 Isaías Silva Serafim, May 31, 2025
    Last edited: May 31, 2025
    Greatest SofaScore ratings in a CL final:

    Desire Doué 24/25 9.7
    Courtois 21/22 9.5
    Alisson 18/19 9.1
    Messi 10/11 9.1
    Cech 11/12 9.0

    @carlito86

    EDIT: It just updated to 9.8
     
    carlito86 repped this.
  17. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Most Goals+Assists Before Turning 18

    Pelé: 95+31=(126)
    Yamal: 31+36=(67)
    Maradona: 43+23=(66)
    Ronaldo: 51+10=(61)
     
    Buyo repped this.
  18. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Shots + Shots-Creating Actions Per90
    Fbref Databatse

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    What it means in your opinion?
     
  20. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    I think Estevao will lower it even more, Prem is toughest league by far, especially physically but not only *check clubelo, and he isn't ready to that at all, he has been average too much this season and I am pretty sure he will have few minutes from Chelsea next season and Chelsea isn't that creative anyway.
    While Mastantuono and Yamal will be playing in a lower league in La Liga in a relative stronger teams in Barcelona/Real. Anyway, I think Mastantuono at the moment is better than Estevao, not in terms of quality per se, but physically, he seems to cope 90 minutos easily, not sure if Estevao could close the gap either, maybe he isn't that maverick type of player. Robinho was technically perhaps as good as Neymar, but slower and could sustain 90 minutes of action. Vinicius clearly wasn't as technical or had the mind or vision of Robinho, still can make impact due to his superior physique. Estevao is perhaps closer to Robinho than Neymar or middle term at this point, it seems to me.
     
  21. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I think Estevão will play more minutes at Chelsea than Mastantuono at Real Madrid where he'll have to compete for the RW spot with Rodrygo and Arda Guller. He will probably play always in the second half and on copa del Rey matches vs 3rd division teams. Estevão on the other hand will probably be a regular starter at Chelsea but he will be playing for a mid table team who doesn't have the collective structure of teams like Liverpool or ManCity. Let's see what happens
     
  22. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    Madueke is better than Estevao at this point in life, clearly to me. Neto is not, but Chelsea is getting Gittens it seems, and if they do, it will be surprising to me Estevao is a starter. De facto, I expect him to be a bench player in his first season, if he manages to win the starter position before the end of the season, I will be very surprising. Premier League is a hard league for foreigns to go in and play, especially at this age. Anyway, I'm confident Mastantuono even with limited minutes will put out better numbers than him.
     
  23. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Progressive Passes p90
    Fbref Databatse (Since 2017/18)

    [​IMG]
     
  24. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Kimmich 9.97
     
  25. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    League Only (Fbref data)
    Goals-xG+xAG

    (xAG is the xG of every key pass)

    [​IMG]

    Seasons before 2017/18 were available for Messi on Fbref some time ago, and I saved them in an excel, which is why he's the only player I have that data for.
     

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