The thread for Ruud Gullit

Something for you now:

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Gullit and MvB spoke about this yesterday. Some good perspective for 'time' and 'generations' came to the surface.

Van Basten: "It was peculiar. Also peculiarly cold I have to say. It was really cold. Spectacular."
--- How was it to walk on the field again.
Gullit: "That was impressive. There was a banner, drones, it was a 'cool' feeling. You could feel the Cup again. It was heavier than I remembered. And before this was also nice because Marco became honorary member."
Van Basten: "That is also because it has just started. I am there with Baresi, Shevchenko of course..."
--- Inzaghi
Van Basten: "Soon all the others will come too. That is also more than right. Ruud, Rijkaard, Maldini, Seedorf, Rivera, Kaka and all the others."
--- It is not so strange you are one of the first right.
Gullit: "True."
Van Basten: "Yes well... not by appearances [among the foreigners]."
Gullit: "You left behind three golden balls, world players of the year and an ankle. It is more than right."
--- Do you become sentimental? Sentimental old sixty-plus on a day like sunday."
Van Basten: "No, exactly not! It is nice to see it and at the same time also 'okay, this is it then'. I have to say, you are older now. The relationship with the public you know... it has become different people in the meantime. The older generations think it is great but there are also younger people and for them it is like 'okay, the grey old dudes from the slow motion video'."
Van der Vaart: "Am I allowed to say something? Something negative. Can I?"
--- Now?
Van der Vaart: "You know, Marco, I love Marco. When I was young, six to twelve years old, Marco was great. The finest."
Van Basten: "Like me and Amsterdammer Ruud with the Golden Ajax and '74. The same age."
Van der Vaart: "Then the Ajax jubilee. We are all there, except Marco. Marco does not mind, and here he is on the field in Milan."
Van Basten: "Ruud called me. I didn't want this either."
[some inaudible blahblah]
Gullit: "No look..."
---- Just a moment. Look at this man in the stands. This says so much.
Van Basten: "Yes, that is what I meant. This are people, forty, sixty, even eighty years old who have seen us play. There are also some fans of twenty-five years old. I can remember how at Milanello suddenly Nordahl... Nordahl appeared at Milanello. He was sixty, sixty-five if I say that right. Initially you are confused and think 'who was this exactly'. Well yes, he was Van Basten, Shevchenko, or Weah of his time."
Hiddink: "The younger generations may well realize and know a bit about who has played there, is my advice."
[some squabbling about why MvB refused to appear at Ajax...]
Gullit: "I was there around too. Then I heard Marco did not want to come to Milan either. So I called him and persuaded him. If Baresi is on the field, Frank, the Ballon d'Or winner Shevchenko, also the record [appearances, foreigners] holder Clarence who was invited to bring the world cup into the stadium."
Hiddink: "PSV is founded in... 1912"
--- 1913
Hiddink: "When PSV exists 125 years I hope Ruud..."
Gullit: "Without doubt. No question."
--- Did you also have a lunch in Milan?
Van Basten: "Yes, at the hotel there was some sort of bird cage. Ruud was supposed to hold a speech for a quarter, and it became 1 hour 55 minutes. It was very enjoyable I have to say. Ruud is a good talker. Some things I heard for the first time. The fact he still played so well, with some absurdly high peaks in some years, despite all the malaise around him is unique, hats off."
--- You didn't know?
Van Basten: "Of course you have heard before but when he connects it all for 90 minutes, and longer, it is something else. That is really different."
--- Thirty years later.
Van Basten: "In the past you experienced yourself things too, I saw Ruud with my own eyes, but this is what he said himself and also with his own feelings, in good Italian, as a television host and lecturer at the same time, it was interesting really. Intense, for him."
[then some talk about the USA influences on current Milan... the game that was played]
Gullit: "All the footballers who have won things stood in the hallway. The current players passed. Shaking hands. Then you think 'ooffff some bit of pressure here'."
Van Basten: "We said that to each other. If you have to play and the attention flows to the grey people... That is not tasty when you have to play yourself."
Gullit: "Also Pirlo stood there of course, in his stoic pose. Hmmm yeah."
Van der Vaart: "What has this for feeling for you? Marco is not really a sentimental person I guess... I can cry here, by manner of speaking."
Gullit: "That is not what I have. I found it nice to be there. Nice to see old team-mates. That is what I liked. The reaction of the public was nice, I appreciated this very much. When it is finished it is also more than okay. You also do not want to get stuck... for the Italians 'ohhh please, put on your boots again, can you still play'."
[....]
Gullit: "The DNA of the old Milan is gone. That is very difficult to accept. For some. [...] This also says something about how old we are. But that feeling... You also sense it with the generation and batch after us. That was present in San Siro. With Shevchenko, Jankulovski, Pirlo, Seedorf. They don't have that grip and grasp."
Van Basten: "You see Baresi pictured here. Baresi was a fantastic footballer. Kind of Johan Cruijff or Gullit, but then among the defenders. Of all the ones I played with."

 

In the main I agree with you as you might guess/know (with all those actually available, around their prime and fit, you had one of the most unbeatable collections ever! like AC Milan was between 1991-1993) but at the same time, they aren't really forgotten yet. Not to the extent Nordahl is now certainly.

Some quite important bits in 'the story' like how Gullit in particular influenced enormously the ups and downs of the AC Milan season ticket sales and attendance up/downs has been almost entirely forgotten, yes.

I don't know/doubt whether these two recent Gazzetta dello Sport pieces below qualify as 'underrating' though (the stuff about Tadej Pogacar Grand Tour dominance and the 'up to ten Ballon d'Ors'; not the assertion about the subsequent era and Ronaldo Fenomeno, or the stats being much better in his own time than they might look).
https://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/Serie-A/Milan/31-10-2024/van-basten-60-anni-ecco-perche-oggi-dominerebbe-come-pogacar_preview.shtml?reason=unauthenticated&origin=http://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/Serie-A/Milan/31-10-2024/van-basten-60-anni-ecco-perche-oggi-dominerebbe-come-pogacar.shtml

https://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/Seri...i-ancelotti/tre-palloni-doro.shtml?refresh_ce

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What I found interesting though is the realization Nordahl was then (late 80s) about as old as he is now. Very hard or impossible to compare pre-catenaccio, five forwards, Serie A with 1980s Serie A of course but so is say Koeman (Baresi?) vs Van Dijk now, or peak De Bruyne vs Gullit himself (Van Basten did think, and Gullit too, there has been no defender before in their lifetime who was the best aged 33.5 - not that I have seen all episodes).

Van Basten himself finds all those historic players hard to place and also national team players he played with but when it comes to club team-mates he has been pretty consistent in 'Cruijff, Gullit at his zenith close, then Rijkaard/Baresi tied', and his reasoning. He has received some flak by saying in 2018 and then again 2023 that he compares well/favorably to Cristiano Ronaldo until the age of 28. Gullit has always been a Van Basten fanboy, well before he went to Milan, and if I am not mistaken most Milan team-mates point to MvB as the finest of the lot.

I'd say e.g. Neeskens is a bit overrated when compared to Rijkaard (who is generally lower in all esp. English lists - 'Rijkaard is underrated' when flipping the equation), Edgar Davids, or other famous 'lieutenants' as say Tigana, Mario Coluna and so (though not Marco Tardelli for example), even though Neeskens proved to be class and decisive without the other Johan (esp. around 1978-1979 obviously for NT and the significant CWC win for Barcelona).

Donadoni is also briefly mentioned and profiled in the episode yesterday, when VDV mixes him up with (young) Albertini and says Donadoni was 'the Pirlo of your team'.

The reason I decided to share with you was the generational perspective. The Nordahl bit, the young VDV bit.

Domestically he'll not be underrated soon surely (Gullit has been and will be more vulnerable); say, also the RvN/Hasselbaink/Makaay etc. striker generation (b. 75-77) was impacted some bit. 'The goal' will be replayed eternally.

 

Fun fact: Van Basten is now arguably the best living or dead footballer (by extension: sportsman) without royal honors.

Gullit was honored in '88 and in later years even promoted to knight (but: there is not an equivalent of 'Sir'). Cruijff was honored in '74 and then in 2002 promoted to officer. Meanwhile, the KNVB itself never went further than the 2nd highest distinction for Cruijff (in 2000 Lothar Matthaus received the same rank, for comparison).

Knowing the 1988 goal and also the record number of successful dribbles in a Euros final (per OPTA) that's notable trivia. Add to this MvB also winning the '87 Cup Winners Cup as captain for a native club team, with the winning goal.

Marco van Basten is the best footballer without a royal distinction since today

Willem van Hanegem has been appointed Officer in the Order of Orange-Nassau. Marco van Basten still has no medal, despite his decisive role during the 1988 European Football Championship.
[...]
Van Hanegem had therefore never received a royal distinction, but because of his eightieth birthday, this happened anyway. Not because of his contribution to sport, but as a thank you for his social commitment after his career. In any case: Van Hanegem is finally also a member of the club of Oranje-Nassau.

First footballer

Abe Lenstra was the first footballer to receive such an honour in 1962. During the Honours, he was appointed Knight in the Order of Orange-Nassau.

Two years earlier, the government had already been asked in the Senate why so few athletes received such an honour. Education Minister Cals judged in his answer that there was sufficient and appropriate attention for their achievements. 'The Minister informs the Senate that since 1948, in addition to Mrs F. Blankers-Koen, awards have been presented to cyclists GBM Schulte and A. van Vliet and additionally to 199 board members of various sports associations and clubs.'
[...]
In 1970, Moulijn was even knighted because he ran so phenomenally along the line. Since Van Hanegem's award, Marco van Basten is [most probably] the greatest Dutch footballer of all time without a government medal [by extension: sportsman]. After all, he also delivered his achievements in sporting antiquity, so that only captain Gullit was awarded for the European title.
On October 31, Van Basten will turn sixty. If we continue at the current pace, he will be appointed Officer in the Order of Orange-Nassau in 2044. That is more than half a century after his sporting successes, just like Van Hanegem this week.
https://sportgeschiedenis.nl/sporte...voetballer-zonder-koninklijke-onderscheiding/

It's easy to see that some players of a lower level (I'd say), and also without a truly major national team career or captaining a domestic club have received this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Seedorf#Honours

Nice stuff this:

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Shocking miss here below!
https://www.facebook.com/80sfootballheaven/videos/marco-van-basten-miss-1988/1115665222706929/

 

His former team-mate Rene van de Gijp yesterday in what is (sadly) the most watched talkshow/entertainment show of the country.

"Now I have to admit.. that I have the idea this table does not underestimate him. He was really very good. It is the only player in the world, until Bellingham now I think, although not quite there, who was on all positions second to none. Right-back, stopper, libero, does not matter. He could play everywhere at a high level. That is pretty unique. When you put your ex-husband Edgar Davids down as striker, I don't think we can stop laughing. Place Bergkamp as right-back and maybe there is a problem. With Ruud not. The only player now who is closest in this is Bellingham."

 

This famous game had 5.5 million viewers here (Napoli vs Bayern 3 million as well). The first leg of PSV vs Real Madrid of the same year had four million viewers, with the 2nd leg was broadcasted by Belgian television.
https://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=KBPERS01:003456013:mpeg21:a00076

Now they are happy with 800000 when a native team plays.

This has been a gradual process.