The "Thoughts That Don't Require Their Own Thread" Thread VI

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by huskydeac, Feb 3, 2014.

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  1. Alan

    Alan Titanium Member

    Feb 25, 1999
    Massachusetts
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  2. BrianLBI

    BrianLBI BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 7, 2002
    New Hampshire
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've been enjoying Mariner's appearances on ESPN FC. I think he'll be a great addition. Looking forward to Steve Nicol joining once or twice in the third chair.:)
     
  3. a517dogg

    a517dogg Member+

    Oct 30, 2005
    Rochester, NY
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    He is a center forward with an international pedigree...
     
  4. A Casual Fan

    A Casual Fan Member+

    Mar 22, 2000
    Finally, a difference maker. A proven top-shelf goal scorer!
     
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  5. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    UMass only will play three games at Gillette during the Revs regular season.
     
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  6. Jon Martin

    Jon Martin Member+

    Apr 25, 2000
    SE Mass
    #156 Jon Martin, Feb 28, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2014
    Camilo in limbo, Queretaro on shaky ground amid allegations of fraud by team ownership

    I wonder what the odds are that he returns to MLS this season. I have no idea what mechanism MLS would use to re-introduce him - the Caps would seem to have no further claim - but could a team not put in a discovery claim now?

    Not that it would ever happen, but his style would seem to suit the Revs very well. Just for the sake of torturing myself,

    ......................Bunbury.........................
    Camilo....Nguyen....Rowe....Fagundez
    ......................Caldwell........................
     
  7. agoo101284

    agoo101284 Member

    Mar 23, 2005
    Bronx, NY
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can you "discover" a guy who has been in the league previously? And he'd be a DP, so I doubt we'd end up with him.
     
  8. Jon Martin

    Jon Martin Member+

    Apr 25, 2000
    SE Mass
    I could swear there was a precedent for this, but I can't put my finger on it.

    Yeah, well....

    :(
     
  9. NFLPatriot

    NFLPatriot Member+

    Jun 25, 2002
    Foxboro, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Vancouver got a transfer fee, so if he came back without the DP tag, he'd be subject to allocation order (see: Marco Pappa). If he is a DP, highest bidder (see: Clint Dempsey), unless the league wasn't involved in the transfer, then it's back to allocation order (see: Maurice Edu). OK, now my head is spinning...

    Toronto at the top of the allocation order at the moment, but these slots are usually traded for.
     
  10. Jon Martin

    Jon Martin Member+

    Apr 25, 2000
    SE Mass
    You did better at organizing this than I did.

    Not that I thought this was a realistic possibility. It's just that we seem so close to making a real push. I'm having uncomfortable flashbacks to those MLS Cup finals, where I kept ruminating on the idea that we just needed one more piece to the puzzle.
     
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  11. wolfp10

    wolfp10 Member

    Sep 25, 2005
    The more I think about it the harder it is to take MLS's contract/allocation process seriously.

    European leagues seem to do fine without it; why can't MLS?
     
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  12. huskydeac

    huskydeac Member+

    Mar 31, 2009
    MLS is building the league in a far different way than any European league. MLS doesn't want only 2-4 teams competing for the title before the season even starts.
     
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  13. Soccer Doc

    Soccer Doc Member+

    Nov 30, 2001
    Keene, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I know there are those who disagree but I want the League to encourage "parity"--at least in the near term.
     
  14. KaptPowers

    KaptPowers Member

    Dec 29, 2003
    Arlington, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That doesn't mean we have to have arcane and Byzantine player acquisition rules that change literally weekly and no one clearly understands. Turns off fans and draws nothing but mockery from the media. The cap enforces parity, no reason for utter malarkey like "discovery claims" and the like.
     
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  15. huskydeac

    huskydeac Member+

    Mar 31, 2009
    If there were no discovery claims then teams would be fighting one another for a player's signature. It makes no sense for MLS to compete with itself for a player, thus raising his salary.

    I agree that there needs to be a lot more transparency, but the rules definitely make economic/competitive sense. It's an evolving league and they're still figuring out what will work best to keep things balanced. It might not always seem fair, but I'm pretty confident that the owners are all on board.
     
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  16. KaptPowers

    KaptPowers Member

    Dec 29, 2003
    Arlington, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh god... not... not competition!

    The rules are clearly non-competitive, as you pointed out above. The salary cap all by itself is enough for parity. The micromanagement and these silly rules are training wheels the league has outgrown and must outgrow to graduate into being a better product.
     
  17. huskydeac

    huskydeac Member+

    Mar 31, 2009
    I don't disagree entirely, but I think the rules have certainly had their place while the league has expanded and grown. You can mock the idea of competition in regards to signing players, but for a league that was never sure of it's survival, they'd have been idiots to pin teams against one another financially.

    The salary cap alone would not have been enough to keep the league balanced. Certain cities have a huge advantage based on their international appeal. No one dreams of going to the cities of Kansas City, Columbus, Houston, etc. Also, certain teams obviously have far bigger budgets to work with for things outside the salary cap that would give them a huge competitive advantage. The league has had to find ways to minimize that impact. Now that the league is more established I think a lot of it will be sorted out or at least made more clear with the new collective bargaining agreement.

    Many people don't like how acquisitions are done, but no one is tuning out because of it.
     
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  18. wolfp10

    wolfp10 Member

    Sep 25, 2005
    If my employer and their competitors acted like MLS they would be hauled for court for violating anti-trust legislation.

    There is nothing wrong with one team spending $10 million on payroll and another $3 million on its payroll. Your return is equal to the risk you take.

    I can't imagine most around here being OK with the Canadiens telling the Bruins they are spending too much on payroll. Why is it OK for the Revs to hold everyone back?
     
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  19. huskydeac

    huskydeac Member+

    Mar 31, 2009
    MLS has been hauled to court for anti-trust legislation. Since they're single entity and not conspiring with competitors, they were found to be operating legally.

    I agree with your second argument, as does MLS. Toronto will be spending at least 3 or 4 times what the Revs are this year.

    The Canadiens and Bruins both operate under a salary cap. Similarly, the Revs don't tell anyone they're spending too much. They follow the salary budget. The league decides where those numbers should be.
     
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  20. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly. 20 year olds look a little silly riding with training wheels. The arcane rules made sense 10 years ago when the focus was on ensuring the business will survive. But now that teams are being added left and right, its time to grow up as a league. Free market economy, less cost control, spend to win, all the things that will make the Kraft's want to sell ASAP :)
     
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  21. KaptPowers

    KaptPowers Member

    Dec 29, 2003
    Arlington, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They would have been. Past tense. The league is not in danger of folding. The league is stable and growing. They served their purpose, now let's move on.

    If you don't think these rules, their seemingly made-up-on-the-fly nature, and total lack of transparency aren't turning fans away- you couldn't be more wrong. Soccer fans who aren't MLS fans (a.k.a the vast majority of soccer fans resident in this country) take a look at these rules and just shake their head.

    Even long-time MLS reporters get a headache from them.
     
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  22. abecedarian

    abecedarian Member+

    Mar 25, 2009
    SSSomerville
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I doubt that's the case. It's only the hard-core MLS fans who care about the arbitrariness of the rules and complain about them. The reason American soccer fans don't follow MLS has nothing to do with MLS's rules, and everything to do with a snobbish perception that American soccer is inauthentic.

    As to your larger point that the league has established itself enough to take the training wheels off, I'm halfway in agreement. MLS is definitely on the cusp. At the same time, single entity will always be single entity, no? Anybody who's a parent can relate to the problem: balancing "it's not fair" in a particular instance against the good of the whole.
     
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  23. A Casual Fan

    A Casual Fan Member+

    Mar 22, 2000
    On the day of Home Opener -- March 22 -- Buy One Get One at Chipotle if wearing Revs gear.

    http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...rtnership-highlighed-first-ever-mls-homegrown

    Also --
    http://pressbox.mlssoccer.com/content/chipotle-announces-marquee-partnership-major-league-soccer
     
  24. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If MLS is "on the cusp" when will they have arrived? Going with your parent metaphor, there's going to be a time in a child's life when the parent needs to let go of the bike, give them a push and watch their child peddle of his or her own volition. This requires letting go and embracing the risk that your child may fail initially and fall off their bike scraping their elbow - but they also could pedal faster and gain confidence to continue on their own.

    MLS is at that point in its evolution with the addition of the latest group of new teams and their respective markets. The single entity and the arcane rules are the parent still holding on to the child as it's pedaling faster and faster and ready to push away. It's time to let go and give junior that push and watch what happens.

    MLS needs to shed its risk averse, conservative old guard mentality ushered in by the Hunt family, Kraft family and other founding owners. They were certainly important in the founding and early development of the league - no question - but it's evolved. MLS in 2014 is very different than 2004 or 1996. It's time to embrace the new era of young, innovative and influential ownership and executives with fresh ideas and a willingness to spend like a professional league in the modern era.

    In short, more Lieweke and less Kraft.
     
  25. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But that would be like you trying to leverage one department off another to get a better salary, all within the same company. In this case, each MLS team is really just a regional office of the same corporation.

    MLS are a bunch of businessmen, and there is no way they would allow for labor costs to be raised across the boards for all of them, even if there are instances when they might be willing to pay more than another team for a player they both want.

    There has to be a mechanism in place, and I'm OK with that, aside from when they add the old Orwellian asterisk-disclaimer "except on days that end in Y"

    Besides, it's not like our club is ever going to get into a bidding war for a player. When we make an offer, the agent says, "you mean per week, don't you?" and then he laughs his way out the door when Burns says, "Ahh, no, actually, y'see, it's per year, but we have a lot of other, you know, options that all add up to a very attractive package overall..."
     

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