Yep, this is the mantra I ref by, as long as you aren't giving tons of cheap cards (I consider dissent, FRD, DR to be cheap. Not that they shouldn't be given, but just don't have a mountain of those). UB variety challenges should mostly be given at all times and warning those clear ones instead is how to lose control of a game. Hell, earlier this month I gave a player a DOGSO red in a preseason intra-club scrimmage (younger vs. older age group) and both coaches just said to leave the player on the field. That's no problem with me, but I make the original call to show I'm not incompetent.
That's a terrible take. Cards are worth their weight in gold. As long as you're not giving _soft_ cards, sure. But players can and will absolutely line up DR/FDR violations to slow the game down -- especially in the last 10 minutes. But you don't want to caution that because it's considered cheap? Good luck trying to reign in some hot-heads seeing you "chicken out" obvious FDR/DR in a 1-2 match in the dying embers of the game because you gave "mountain" others in the last 30, that were also obvious. Because when they make it obvious, they know they can get away with it ... until they can't. Now dissent, I agree with it unless it's absolutely obvious, especially as a 2CT.
The last 2 page of comments have been interesting. We’ve all made comments in a game that we thought were funny and realize it falls flat. Nothing wrong with admitting we made a mistake, similar to missing a hand ball since our view was blocked and learning how to be in a better position next time (if possible). On the other side of the spectrum, there’s nothing wrong with being friendly with players and coaches since it obviously goes a long way. Just like real life, you need to know your target audience.
I did not say to not caution FRD/DR. I said they are cheap cautions that it sucks to load up on. I prefer to manage out of them unless it's an egregious attempt to stop a quick attacking throw or free kick, or unless I warned the player a few times, and most of my cautions will be SPA or reckless.
I agree with @soccerref69420 here. I think (may be putting words here) what soccerref was trying to highlight are the yellows that don’t have some type of escalation. Most of them are just Oprah handed out as punishment and not much thought into modifying behavior. The laws give us so much opportunity to interject ourselves just resorting to a card immediately is cheap… and ultimately as a player I use to take a DR or FRD card all the time late in the game, bc by the time the referee identifies, sanctions, pauses the game and then restarts our team either A) already recovered got back in position B) that administration created more delay with maybe the referee saying “I’m going to add more time” which they rarely did. So either way I’d win. Plus that adds so much frustration to the other team and coaches it often puts them off their game for a minute. an old sayin I heard “punish the tackle/tactical; manage the technical. If you can.”
I would hope that you would have managed/talked/warned the players violating DR/FDR by first caution... that way next time they set themselves up for it. But if you have one team that absolutely is parking the bus/dragging time, are you going you manage it every time?
This has become a recurring saying at my games. I had a high school scrimmage today. Near the end, the white team goalkeeper makes a save but falls hard so the ball bounces out of his hands and goes to a blue attacker in the penalty area. The goalkeeper is on the ground screaming and holding his knee. I stop the game before anything else happens. The goalkeeper is carried off the field by his coach and some of his teammates. A blue team player says, "It's our ball. We had it when you blew the whistle." I respond that all drop balls in the penalty area go to the defending goalkeeper. The blue team player insists, "But we had the ball!" I say, "Don't blame me. Blame the people that wrote the high school rules."
Yes, but it was a high school game under NFHS rules & there are differences between the codes. I also said, "Blame the people that wrote the high school rules" because I don't think that the average person knows what NFHS is!
It's always fun the first week or so of HS season when teams have club players... YC. Hey#5, you have to sub out. "Huh? Why?" High School rules, different that club. "Oh, yeah." "Hey, we wanna sub!" Not on a free kick if clock wasn't stopped. "Why not?!?" Remember, High School rules.
The opposite happened to me a couple years ago. It was a club game in the early spring with white playing blue. Blue had a thrown-in at the halfway line while white had players ready to sub (and they had been there for a few minutes). When I let the white players sub, a blue player said, "They can't sub on our throw." My response was "This isn't high school. They can in club soccer." A few minutes later, blue had another throw-in, but the throw never entered the field. White went to get the ball, and I said, "Remember again, this isn't high school so because it didn't enter the field, it's a re-throw for blue."
Attacker shot into the chest of the defender, who has his hands protecting his body. Crystal clear not handling. Coach - "Handball!" Me - "No ... hands inside the frame of the body, not a foul." Coach - "I'm a ref too, that's a handball!" Me - "Well, then ... you're doing it wrong." Different match. Ball hits the ref and changes possession. Drop ball to original team per LOTG. Coach of other team - "Hey, we had the ball, that should be our ball, what are you doing?" I'm AR1 in front of him. I quietly explain the rule and point out the center got it correct. Coach - "No, that's not the rule. It's an Indirect Free Kick!" Me - "Yea, they changed that rule about 2-3 years. Uncontested drop ball is how it works." Coach - "You're wrong, you're wrong, you don't know the rules." Me - "Let's look it up after the game, I'll bet you my game fee I'm right. You in?" Coach - "hurummph" Still waiting for my $20.
Boys varsity, late in the game. I'm AR1. Sub standing there, waiting for his team to have an opportunity to sub. "Ref, do you know how much time is left?" I glance a my watch. "Yes." He smiles because he knows I got him. "Four." "Minutes?" I restrained myself from asking him if the other possibilities were seconds or hours.
Wouldn’t it be great if you could bet a penalty kick against his team if he’s wrong? You stop the game and call all the players in then go to your bag and get your phone with the rule book. Tell the players that their coach just bet a penalty kick against them that he knows the rules better than you. Then he gets it wrong. And the others teams players rejoice at getting a free penalty kick
With kids young enough to rate a $20 AR fee, that coach has no business saying squat. Not that he does for older players, but holy moley. I can see the red baseball hat, gray hoodie, and whistle around his neck from here.
Tonight I brought in my soccer dialogue I use on spectators who have tried to confront us post game into a high school VB water polo match. Very competitive, physical, and difficult game to referee. Home team lost by 1. I was with an extremely experienced guy in the sport and as a ref. At halftime of the next (last) game, JVB, a player from the home team came to talk to us. Did the whole “what do I need to do to get fouls, respectfully I feel you guys missed a lot” and for the most part he was respectful shook our hands and started walking off. Then a guy who I think was probably his father who was doing play by play in the VB game started trying to use this opportunity to say “I appreciate you came out but” and started with how bad we were and how we completely blew the game. My partner tried to ignore it but I went soccer ref mode like when I defend a youth member of my crew. Asked him if he was a referee, he said no. Asked if he was interested in becoming one, he said no. I asked why, is it because he didn’t want to spend his free time getting berated by grown men and teenagers all game like how his teams coach was doing (he got a YC then a RC on the game because he was a complete prick) and getting antagonized half an hour after the game is over Ike he was doing to us now? Cue stumbling over his words and I said “sir I would love for you to become a ref, then I can work with you, and you can teach me how to be better to not blow the game, can I give you our assignors information so you can join? Please, I’m asking I’m begging you nicely” and like the usual cowardly spectator, he mumbled out that he doesn’t need to teach me anything and that we need to be better and walked off. He can be damn sure I’m adding that to the report my partner is putting in for the coach red card. I hope that this will be like soccer and the failure to control his spectators tacks on more suspension
Had a doozy of a game last night. BV game supposed to start at 4, but delayed until 6 because of lack of bus. Kids must have spent their time getting amped up. Home team is a strong "Tech" school (good in their division, but not usually outside of it) with a 6-1-1 record and the visitors are mid level small school with .500 record. Visitors appear to be the stronger team and controlled the ball 75% of the time. Not 5 minutes into the game, visitors are pressing and high ball is cleared back towards their goal around mid-field. Striker makes a tremendous play to somehow chest the ball forwards and is instantly a step past the defender. Who promptly knocks him down to prevent the breakaway. I thought about DOGSO for a moment, but we are at the 45 yd line and the ball was 10 yds away. So I give a YC and call out "Stopping Promising Attack, white #6" in my required report to coaches. Get the usual grumbling about "1st foul of the game", and "what, no warning?" Game continues and we get 5 more YC for various USB and Reckless plays. Including 2 to the very strong and skilled, center back for the home team. Through all of this, we are still at 0-0. Finally, with about 5 minutes to play, home team breaks through and gets a goal. Now the visitors are pulling out all stops and crashing the net and totally dominating play, but can't put a shot on frame. At one point the ball is loose off to the side and a home defender makes a nice sliding, sweeping clear of the ball and in his follow though, trips up an attacker who had been closing in on the ball. Absolutely not even close to a foul. But the visiting assistant coach starts screaming "STOPPING PROMISING ATTACK" over and over. I didn't say anything, but I'm thinking, if you honestly think that, you need to watch a lot more soccer. I suspect he was just following what I call the Jim Calhoun (UCONN HofF bball coach) method of coaching, which is to yell about anything in hopes of getting a few calls, if only so the coach does not yell at you. PS - turns out that SPA is not a HS thing. I had to report it as "Deliberate Tactical Foul"
Maybe I'm a grumpy old man, but: 1. We're not yelling across the field at referees. (Verbal warning) 2. We're not yelling across the field at referees repeatedly. (Yellow) 3. We're not yelling across the field at referees repeatedly as an assistant. (Red)
Commits a reckless or spa foul “but ref it was my first foul”, despite persistent offenses being one of the less frequently given cautions
Funny you should mention this--I just learned that jumping a throw-in doesn't come under FRD, since no such thing exists for NFHS. Even encroachment on a FK is only among the non-exhaustive examples of UC. For throw-in stupidity you have to go to Situation 15.1.3, which steers us to UC And in PA, the only reason I had to report this YC is that it led immediately to an loud exclamation that the YC constituted male bovine excrement. There is talk of YC tracking in the future (...) which would be a big step up.
I know it happens, but this frustrated me because the player felt the need to wait half an hour to talk to us to tell us we did not do well. I am fine with the player doing it because he was respectful. But it’s the frustration of feeling that he was probably right, and how my frustration doing this sport with a complete lack of training and resources to be able to improve my ability as a referee is building.