I got the calves one last week! I mean, they're amazing, but I didn't expect it. No phone numbers (yet?), but I've surprised some players with speed or seeing something right. This past week I was running next to a HS boy, we were next to each other so I turned it on a bit as we went downfield, and he gave me a "woo" as I ran the other way. Why not.
lol, not at all. it’s a professional environment. Not the time I would expect to be hit on. It was awkward too Bc the captain came up to us after the game. The coach was around the same age as me and it was in a small town school. no humble brag.
Less of a funny story here and more of a question that involved some sideline discussion that I'm pleased to say went rather well. White team has a designated throw-in guy who can send the ball pretty far but usually has some spin on it. The first time, I figure it's a fluke -- it's U-12 rec league, and I'll cut kids some slack. A few throw-ins later, I see this is a feature, not a bug. Red team player comes up and says his coach wants to know if spinning throw-ins are legal. I tell him it's borderline, and I'm keeping an eye on it. Player yells my instructions back to his coach. Keeper also echoes. I tell them to let *me* worry about the throw-ins. I keep a close eye on the thrower, and finally, he makes it easy for me, releasing the ball over his shoulder rather than his head. This was right in front of the coach who was complaining, so I naturally hear the usual "'bout time" comments. At halftime, I race over to my phone and seek guidance. What I saw basically backed up what I thought -- a spin, in and of itself, is not an infraction, but if it's clearly thrown much more with one hand than the other, that would be a problem. I have just in time to discuss that with both coaches and the player in question, and everyone seems to appreciate it. (The White team coach was a little grumpy on the last play of the game, asking if I had blown for the end of the game or a penalty in his team's favor. Considering his player had slammed into a Red team player, the answer was that the game was over. He was down 0-2, anyway.) Law 15 says a player must "throw the ball with both hands from behind and over the head from the point where it left the field of play." So I *think* my interpretation is correct. Is it? In the same game, I saw something I had never seen at any level -- a team took a goal kick backwards. I had to think about that and couldn't remember anything to suggest this was an infraction, and Law 16 says nothing about it. I'm just glad it didn't go into the goal, leaving me to explain why I was awarding a corner kick.
There used to be something in the LOTG that forbid putting a spin on the ball, but that is before my time. There is nothing currently in the laws about it. You just need to make sure that it is thrown in with both hands from behind & over the head with both feet on the ground either behind or touching the line. A goal kick is in play when it is kicked and moves. There is nothing about direction. If it is kicked into a team's own goal, it is a corner kick for the opposing team just like any free kick kicked directly into a team's own goal.
IMO refs still give way too many foul throws. If the ball had some sort of movement backwards before going forward then it's behind the head for me. If it had two hands on the ball, I don't care about the spin. I don't care if the center of the ball didn't exactly go through the imaginary vertical line between their eyes. And hey if we watch nearly every throw in slow motion, they had both feet on the ground at the moment they released the ball. Unless they have a long throw to launch an attack and manage to have their back foot lift by a significant amount, I don't want to hear about it. My standards tighten up the more advantage (e.g. long throw) a team is trying to gain out of it.
Spin? Waaaaay before your time. Thirty years ago there were (still) some referees worried about that but they've all aged out of the system by now. Majoring in the minors. IIRC, the Law used to say 'both hands equally' but 'equally' was taken out a long time ago. And the unfair advantage gained from spinning your throw-in is? And what are you going to do when a one arm player goes to take a throw-in? Tell him that the Laws of the Game prohibit him from taking throw-ins? To this day, I remember taking a throw-in or two in a game where I had broken my middle finger earlier in the game. That hurt!
I'm still annoyed by how much time I wasted explaining to u10 coaches and parents when I was first starting out, that a throw in that spins aren't automatically illegal. So much wasted time when their kids were trying to learn the game and how to play with their feet. The amount that people care about throw-ins is completely disproportionate to how much it matters.
totally agree it’s silly. But it used to be taught (think 70s) that sideways in meant it was an improper throw. That’s when I started reffing, and I called many. So that explains (sometimes) why coaches who know everything from back when they played may think it’s the case—especially the dads coaching for the first time who haven’t really watched soccer since back when. With the passage of time, however, that’s going away. (And even better, that small cadre of refs who still (improperly) call this. Aarghhh!)
Solo U10. I generally ignore foul throws unless it is egregious. I'm not sweating three inches above the grass. However, we had one tall girl throw the ball in and her foot came way up. But I swear it looked like she released it first. Opponent's coach quietly asked about it and I told him I think she released it first, but I'll watch more closely next time. The next time, sure enough, she released it first, then the back foot came way up. The opposing coach must have been looking closely as well as he said "I'll be damned." I looked at him, he looked at me, looked at the players on his bench and said "Darned...I meant darned."
I agree with all your points above. The thing I really crack down on personally is the location of the throw, mostly in two ways — players that start off in the correct location then creep five metres up the sideline in the guise of being about to throw it in, and when a player takes it 10+ metres away from where the ball went out but they think it's okay because they are now throwing it back to a defender or keeper instead of where there are attackers.
For the more egregious 'creep up' attempts, I will tell them, "No, back here. It's not a five yard penalty.' Virtually every time, I get silent, no eye-contact compliance.
They had soccer back in the 70s? Did they have inflatable balls, or just rocks and roundish pieces of wood?
Couldn’t agree more. As long as it isn’t in their attacking third or right in front of technical area, who cares, let them get the ball back in play and get the game rolling.
I'm annoyed by how, when I was just starting out and doing mostly those U10 rec type games, I felt the need to call tons of foul throws every game. What a waste of time that was, should have just let the kids play. With respect to throw ins, I tell my ARs to not flag those unless they are ridiculously egregious. Throw-in mechanics are such a stupid thing to worry about. Especially at the comp level, don't stop the game for that stuff. I am a stickler for throw-ins in the attacking third though, I will even call them back and say "attacking throw, lets take it from the right place". Caring a ton about throw in mechanics to me is like when you call offside and the defense is 3-4 yards ahead of the AR and the offending team tries to complain about it. I call out "WHAT IS THREE YARDS IN THE DEFENSIVE THIRD GONNA DO? COME ON"
So what is an acceptable limit on how far from where the ball went out to take the throw? The last game I did (U18B) the coach got upset when I made his team retake the throw. The ball went out even with the top of the penalty area but they tried to take a quick throw from the center line. If we are going to move the ball 30 yards up the field before we take the throw why don’t we just declare that every time the ball goes out we are going to move it all the way down and take a corner? I don’t worry about it if the throw is within +-5yds of where the ball went out but some teams get ridiculous if you don’t take control and limit how far down the line they move.
In our rec leagues at U8 and maybe U10, we had a policy that the first bad throw was a re-do; 2 bad throws was a turnover. Yes, it used up time. But once the kid was called for doing it incorrectly, the next one was usually good, or good enough.
This is definitely a "you have to be there moment", but for me my tolerance for either foul throws or being more of a stickler on location comes down to two things. 1) How much advantage does the team get from the situation? 2) How blatant is the violation? If team A takes a throw-in deep in its defensive third, I just want the ball back into play. If they take the throw (particularly backward) in the area code, I'm going to let it go. If the back foot "drags" an inch or two off the ground, so be it. The violation isn't impacting the game. Where I start to deal with things more are the things that everyone can see. Things like "shuffle three times, fake the throw, shuffle three more times, etc." will make me blow the whistle and have the player move back. If the throw-in comes from the forehead only, I'm calling it. If the player wants to execute a long throw and does one of those things where he only uses his left hand to guide the ball, I'll call that. I think I learned this line from someone on this forum, but one of my favorite lines to use for this situation is, "If you don't get greedy, I won't get picky." The players and fans usually get a laugh, and they get the message that I am watching but don't want to call every little nit-picky thing.
I simply can't remember the last time a thrower did the shuffle shuffle shuffle, fake the throw, shuffle some more, et c. and then didn't throw the ball directly to the opposing team. And I've been paying attention to the scenario for a couple of years. HS, College, Adult Amateur, Semi-pro. Doesn't matter. If they "cheat" enough that I *should* deal with it, they just turn it over. Soccer Godz don't rest.
The standard of what's a "good enough" throw-in is different at U-10, U-12 and U-18. And it's different in a real HS varsity game vs. a bunch-of-football-and-basketball-players-who-never-played-soccer-with-a-coach-who-never-coached-it HS "varsity" game. At some point they need to learn the rule. And at some point it becomes just a fair way to get the ball back in play -- which not infrequently includes "Yeah coach, that was ugly, but it was legal."
Our club’s rec league allows one re-throw but if the second one is also bad it’s play on. Strikes a ballance between correcting bad throws and getting on with the game.
My first assignor taught "yards-feet-inches" on throws and free kicks. In the defensive third, it was OK for the ball to be up to a few yards from the spot it needed to be. Middle third, up to a few feet. Attacking third, up to a few inches from where it needs to be. And @RefGil is right. U10 girls game last Saturday, a girl was a good ten yards back from where the ball went out when she set to throw it in. Her mother said she could come farther up. "Even more. Even more. One more step." When she said "One more step" I told the parents near me "It's not going to matter." Sure enough the girl threw the ball right at the feet of an opponent who dribbled it right past where the girl was initially going to throw it.
I've used something like, "Oh c'mon, if you're gonna complain can you find something worth complaining about?" ITOOTR. Is it really gaining an advantage? If so, move them back before they take the throw. Technical nit-pick: if they actually take the throw from the wrong place, it is an improper throw, not a re-take. (Of course, if you made the decision to move them before they threw, you can take the position that you were not permitting the throw to take place as opposed to calling it afterwards, and if you weren't permitting it, then it could be taken--but it would be taken, rather than retaken as it was never taken in the first place.) In practical terms, I move them back before they throw or ignore the extra taken space--unless it is really egregious. If they ignore me and take it from the wrong spot, I call the improper throw. In your example, trying to steal 30 yards at an age they clearly know what they are doing, I probably would call the offense even if I hadn't stopped them first.