The things we hear is back - 2021,22 and more edition

Discussion in 'Referee' started by RefIADad, Jan 17, 2021.

  1. Tigerpunk

    Tigerpunk Member+

    Jun 17, 2004
    I'm also seeing "He got there first and his studs were down"
     
  2. soxfaninny

    soxfaninny Member

    Hotspur
    United States
    Mar 2, 2018
    NY Hudson Valley
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Boys Varsity HS game tonight, 2-man, good game, ended 4-3 for the home team. Walking off the field with my partner, a parent (not sure which school) rushing by to get to his car "Nice try refs".
    Um, thanks?
     
  3. Kit

    Kit Member+

    Aug 30, 1999
    Herkimer, NY, USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Attached Files:

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  4. weka

    weka Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Regarding 4th Officials.

    I recently heard from a referee who likes his 4th Officials to wear a 4th Official jacket to "obscure" their referee jersey and thus involvement as part of the referee crew. The point, he mentions, is that it takes the heat off the 4th Official and they don't get harangued on the sidelines. So they're doing their job "incognito."

    Does he have a point or is he missing the entire point of a FO?
     
  5. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    Missing the entire point of a 4th official. ""The heat?" First, I have over a decade of experience at what's now USL Pro, mostly as 4th official. The 4th official is the rodeo clown, in the words of Frank Anderson. Or maybe it was Ian. The rodeo clown's job isn't to be funny. His job is to distract the bull when the cowboy is down. That means that when a coach is yelling, the 4th is supposed to get the coach talking to him instead. If there's a mass confrontation on the field, the 4th's job is to keep the benches from entering the field. The 4th deals with anything off the field that may affect play of the game, like weather or getting the trainer/EMT's to actually go out there, or not go out there if the referee doesn't think they're needed. So the 4th's job is to absorb the heat.

    Second, if I'm the referee and have a 4th, I want them to be wearing the referee uniform, not a jacket. If they're wearing a jacket, it gets harder to do a quick check during a fly by, to see if the 4th needs my help.

    I once set the wall, as the 4th official. AR1 was the trail AR, probably 30 yards back and dealing with dissent from the farther bench. The referee gave the free kick fairly near the touchline, to my left. He then moved quickly into the center of the field, leaving the kicker and one defender behind. The defender, of course, is only five yards from the ball, so the kicker is appealing for 10. The referee is looking at what's going on in front of the goal. So I trotted out there, set the wall and scrambled back off the field. Do you think I could have pulled that off if I was wearing a jacket? People would be thinking 'who the ... is that guy? Was that a coach? The referee's lost control of the game!' Later, the assessor said, basically, "ahem...." i said, "Mike, I've never done that before and I don't think I'll ever have to do it again." So he chided AR1 for letting the bench distract him. And I'm still friends with AR1.
     
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  6. AlextheRef

    AlextheRef Member

    Jun 29, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is a great post for this thread.

    Not to be too condescending, but it just sounds like this referee formed his opinion from watching games on tv (think FIFA/UEFA jackets) and working leagues and levels where coaching staffs aren't used to 4ths. Like at the youth level or lower levels of the adult amateur pyramid. At those levels, where the staffs aren't used to 4ths, a 4th could theoretically go incognito and the coaches may forget you're there...which could actually reduce potential problems. Many 4ths, when they're just beginning, are overinvolved and can sometimes create more problems for themselves and referees. You'll hear stories about this at youth regionals every year. Does a jacket help the 4th go incognito? Maybe a very small percentage at a very low level. But being intelligent with your positioning as a 4th does a lot more than wearing a jacket would at that level anyway.

    At a higher level, his conclusion is a laughable fallacy...for a lot of reasons. @Law5 shared some. 4ths have A LOT to do and the coaching staffs know they're there. Coaches often have specific plans to implement some kind of gamesmanship with the 4th and to test what they can get away with. While a 4th "going incognito" could occasionally work for a very specific situation in a match, a 4th going incognito doesn't practically work as a general proposition.

    By all means, wear a jacket if its cold or if its wet or if the competition authority expects you to. But a jacket does nothing to reduce getting harangued.
     
  7. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    This is somewhat denigrating the role of the 4O. He is a member of your crew, and should be treated as such. Asking him to wear a jacket to hide his uniform so people might forget he’s there and therefore not a part of your crew, while also wanting to reduce/remove his role of dealing with dissent and bench management, is quite demeaning in my opinion
     
  8. weka

    weka Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    The proper context for this request is that this is in the UPSL. I have worked with him twice as 4th and it has absolutely not worked. I thought as much because the point as the 4th is aborb heat when needed. Makes sense.
     
  9. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    upload_2024-10-2_17-26-12.jpeg
     
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  10. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    GV section game tonight. Home coach gets on the "we'll take that call, sir!" train. Roll tape:

    upload_2024-10-2_23-53-37.gif
     
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  11. Kit

    Kit Member+

    Aug 30, 1999
    Herkimer, NY, USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Several years ago, I was AR2 for a DIII college game when the CR yelled, "Advantage! Play on!" after a foul near the top of the penalty area. The assistant coach yelled back, "We would rather have the foul and the free kick!"
     
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  12. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    I remember doing a U17 or U19 MLS next game and the coach wanted an advantage when his midfielder who got fouled was in his defensive third, facing his own goal, just because he passed it back to his defender and they kept possession. I told him “coach, possession doesn’t equal advantage, you have nothing there” after calling the foul

    Then he apologized at halftime saying I was right
     
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  13. Soccer Dad & Ref

    Oct 19, 2017
    San Diego
    This is one of the most abstract concepts for us to work with. Later in a game, we may have a better feeling for the correct approach, but at the beginning of a game, who knows? Even if you know the two teams and their coaches, the sunlight, or height of the grass blades might be different that day, throwing off everything you think you know.
     
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  14. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    One of the dumbest things I've seen from a travel soccer coach -- and that's quite a bar to clear -- was when the CR clearly called advantage on a foul near midfield. The player carried the ball another 30 yards or so and got fouled again. CR blew the whistle.

    Coach: "WHAT ABOUT THE FIRST ONE?!"

    If I'd been the CR, I'd have tempted to say, "Oh, you'd rather have the first one? OK, let's move the free kick back to midfield."
     
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  15. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    That wouldn’t even be the “sarcastic” type comment we said people shouldn’t be making. I would legitimately tell the coach that. “Okay coach. I’ll give you the first one and we’ll bring the ball back there” and see what his reaction is
     
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  16. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Also today, I had yet another player call out to compliment my whistle being bright pink. I’m telling you guys, there’s something about a pink whistle, and I think bright pink in general, that people seem to love. I’ve had three sports where both players and spectators at some point compliment them. I don’t know if it’s because it’s a disarming color, or just very bright and visible, or what. I would suggest if you can find your favorite whistle in bright pink, give it a try
     
  17. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    Better than that. Advantage - clearly obvious - was called on what would have been a PK. They scored. I don't remember if it was the coach or a spectator, but they argued for the PK call.
     
  18. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    The sadist in me would love to get all Socratic with that induhvidual.
     
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  19. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    I saw what you did there! :)
     
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  20. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    Gave a DOGSO red last night in a HS Varsity game in a large school league where most every player is also a club soccer player at some level. Pretty certain I got the call correct.

    Coaches want an explanation. Fine, go over and tell them its DOGSO outside the box. Red is the only option. Assistant coach, who untl this season was the Varsity coach for probably the last 20 years starts yelling "DOGSO? What is DOGSO? I've never heard of that!"
     
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  21. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Our entire chapter issued only 7 red cards all of last year, so it doesn't shock me that an assistant wouldn't be familiar with it.

    When I first started doing this last year, I would ask them a simple question such as if they had a timekeeper to operate the scoreboard and would be met with a glazed look. If they can't answer that for their home game, I wouldn't expect an assistant to know what DOGSO is no matter how many years they've been coaching.
     
  22. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    He was not just 'an assistant', he was previously the head coach for over 20 years. Trust me, if his player was taken down from behind, he'd know what DOGSO and the required card is.

    Funny thing is, in my first 6 years of school ball, I had only given 1 red (2CT) and in over 15 years of USSF, I have only issued somewhere around 5 (and that includes games up to UPSL level). In the past 10 days of school soccer, I have issued 3 red cards, and 4 for the season. Until now, I thought I was the ref who was 'too nice.'
     
  23. Dayton Ref

    Dayton Ref Member+

    May 3, 2012
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    If the assistant is going to start yelling like an idiot, they've gotten to YC if you ask me. "Sorry, denial of an obvious goal scoring opportunity. [shows yellow] This is for [whatever the HS terminology is for game disrepute]."
     
  24. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    and now today.

    At home, I watch TV with the volume on 40 because I can't hear a damn thing. Wife watches it set on like 5 or 6. Thinks I'm deaf.

    But damnit, I can hear a yellow card from 40 yards away when one JV player tell another one to 'f##k off' under their breath.
     
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  25. Kit

    Kit Member+

    Aug 30, 1999
    Herkimer, NY, USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If the assistant has been involved with only high school soccer for 20 years, then he probably would not have heard of DOGSO. DOGSO was not in the high school rule book until last year even though it's been in FIFA/IFAB for a long time.
     
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