One great thing about our team is that we play like a team. So the sum of 11 are larger than just adding them together. I watched how a poor Portugal team losing--there is no team there, only bunch of ball wizards such as Figo, Deco, C. Ronaldo, etc. trying to take the whole Greek defense on their own. By comparsion, even with 11 of non-skilled players (not long ago!!!), we still can compete as a team. Now just get into the points what in my mind after the first WCQ game: 1) Strong Midfield--Currently we have Weak Midfield (not skill department but physical department). Many people though we have great midfield like Reyna, Armas, Beasley and Donovan. Then we also have O'Brien, Mastronei, Zavagnin, and Mulrooney. What's wrong here? All of them cannot win a head ball and not physical monsters. When I saw how Joseph is much stronger and taller than even our defenders, I understand why Bruce Arena wishes Joseph can play for USA. We probably need to have some taller or bigger midfielders in the future. It is nice to have a midfield that has the kind of skills of Donovan, Convey, Beasley, Martino, etc., but we should begin to have someone like Dempsey, etc. 2) Tough Center defense. People may not believe, but Pope is in decline right now. We are OK with experienced players Sanneh and Berhalter, also with new core players Bocanegra and Gibbs. We may be OK, but to be the best, we have a long to go in there. 3) Dynamic Forwards. What we used to have is a McBride on the air plus Donovan on the run. So we can beat the slow and tall defenders wth Donovan's speed and short defenders with McBride's head. But when we see those defenders who are tall, also fast, and also skillful, such as Brazil's defenders, then our great forwards are going nowhere. Right now, with Casey and McBride together, we are even more static than before. We need tall, but mobile guys here. 4) Right wing midfield. Right now we probably can get away with box midfield with only one winger who can cover both left and right. Donovan will be the "shadow" right midfield until some marvelous talents coming up. 5) Maybe many of you disagree with me on the wing back. With Cherundolo, Hedjuk (possible Russell) and Vanney, Convey, we have an adquate wing back situation compare to most of countries. If we can improve bits by bits, we will move steps close to World CUP. Yes, the CUP.
You are of course correct that with the USMNT, the whole is greater than the some of the parts. If you were to take, say, Portugal's top 23 and tote up their transfer value, and then do the same for us (assuming for the sake of argument no work permit passport restrictions)....well, the disparity would be huge. And maybe rightly so. Yet as a unit we are very very tough. I would disagree with you though on a couple of things. First, in my view, midfielders in the international game don't need to have size (think Ronaldinho) but rather the ability to --possess, hold and shield --play sharply, quickly --win balls Size is helpful, but strength, leverage and fitness are way more important. And that brings us to the other issue: fitness. Arena has clearly made fitness an absolute mantra, and it shows. If you don't keep up with us, we will always outwork you. And a team that outworks you, will usually make it very hard on you to win. Second, I think our forward play is quite dynamic. I think out guys make very effective slashing runs, check hard to the ball, and bang tough when appropriate. I think we have a good combination of speed and physicality. I know if I were a European side, and we had all of our top players healthy and pretty much in form, I wouldn't want to be drawn in with us. As for winning the world cup, well...I've said this before. The World Cup is at bottom a soccer tournament. Soccer tournaments are very unpredictable affairs. Generally speaking the most talented teams wins, but even for them, things have to fall right. The margin between winning and losing a key 1st round game to advance, or a knockout game to keep playing, is often very very slim. If we all go to our graves with the USMNT never having won a World Cup, there is no shame in that...and that is certainly no indication that we have "failed" as a national team program. It is the reality that over the course of any person's lifetime, there can only be 20 WC winners. And the odds are very long for almost every team other than, say, Brazil. But even their dominance will end in the next 20 years.
I don't want to say too much about progress toward winning a cup. We're just not close enough to worry about that now. We can all talk about things being unpredictable and how upsets happen and how things are getting closer in the world, but 2002 saw more upsets and early exits from favorites than any other cup in memory, but in the end we still had a Brazil-Germany final. There is a reason so few teams have won a cup and why the finals are fairly exclusively the domain of a few strong teams. We've got a way to go before we even need to worry about winning the thing. I agree with a few of your points, but disagree with a few more. I'm with Karl in that our midfield is better than you believe. I do think we could use a bit more bite, but overall, our midfield is a strength in this team. In midfield we have multiple players who are capable of playing in top leagues around the world, something that can't really be said about most of our other field positions. Sure, we're not perfect, but we're a lot closer here than anywhere else, especially with Donovan seemingly off the forward list and set in the middle. I agree that unfortunately, Eddie is more likely to get worse than better these days. He's had a great career, but 2006 should be his last shot. We may actually end up with a couple guys stronger in some ways than him by 2006, but his leadership and experience will ensure he's there, and he will still be strong enough to deserve his spot. I'm much less optomistic about our outside backs than you, although I am very pleased to see Cherundolo solidifying himself on the right and between Vanney and Convey, someone should be doing OK on the left. Still, I wouldn't say this is anywhere near a strong spot on the team. Up front, we're in a bit of a bind the way I see it. We're solid in the big guy area with McBride still strong and Casey ready to take over whenever he starts to slip or Casey gets stronger. Unfortunately, without Donovan up front, we have very little to offer in the way of a quick, skillful forward. I can see the McBride-Casey pair being effective in qualifying, especially early when we dominate bunkered teams and are tossing in high balls, but against higher quality teams, the lack of speed up front will be very limiting. Wolf is a good solution, but rarely healthy. After that, we've got no real prospects that look ready to go. A bunch of hopefuls sure, but nothing that can just step right in. Hopefully something will turn up by 2006, but we're a bit short here right now. Of course goal is fine. Cup contenders? Nope, way too many holes and weaknesses with little to offer in truly special, difference making players. Getting better all the time? Yup, and hopefully we'll be able to match our 2002 finish or get to a semi sometime in the next couple of cups.
Excellent point. We are a team. Look at Portugal and Holland. "Teams" that flatter to decieve. Rememeber Brazil had a poor record in the cup from 78 to 90. If I am not mistaken they never made it to the semo's and were put out in the first knockout stages. They played beautifull ball, with great flair, but not as a team. It wasn't until 94, when they sured up the D and tactics (which they were highly criticized for in Brazil-didn't play with enough flair and elagance) that they started to assert their dominance again. Give me a team anyday. One thing I do agree with is that we need a strong "policeman" in the center of the field. Armas (I won't start) is Armas. The need for a Pablo or a new player (Dempsey?) to be given a shot is becoming more obvious. Qualifying is a fight, and it will get physical and ugly. Who's going to lay down the law for us when a Jeremies type tackle happens? I think Gibbs has the attitude and Pablo, but we do need a "bully" so to speak. We are slowly filling in the holes slowly but surely. Expect, but be realistic. Question is now. Who will step up and will Bruce be able to even see everybody or give them a shot? (Gooch, Dempsey, RR, etc. we can go on) Probably not. First time the US has had this dilemma. I think a Euro camp might be a good idea. A lot of young guys over there. One of them should be able to make an impact. Without a camp though, I don't see it happening unless there are a rash of injuries. This has been Bruce's and the Nats biggest help in uncovering players in the past. We will see.
Exactly. And they continued that approach in J/K, where defensive bite superseded offensive flair, where winning balls and causing turnovers in the final third was absolutely key. Rivaldo and Ronaldo did more work than they did dribbling...LOTS more work. Work is critical in the international game. OK, I will say this. When it comes to "talent," Pablo has more of it than Armas. That's indisputable. But, as this thread suggests, talent alone is not enough. Great balls skills and slick moves are not enough. These flashy Euro sides are, taken individually, way more talented than us. Yet with us, the whole is greater than our individuals as individuals. Moreover, the modern game has become a game of matchup problems. You've got to stop, slow down, or make ineffective Player X, while exploiting the weaknesses and shortcomings of Player Y. For example, if you had a fantasy team, who would you pick?...Luis Figo or Tony Sanneh? Well, duh. Yet, when matched up the field, Tony is fast enough, strong enough, and reads the game well enough to put the clamps on him. Suppose a given individual on YOUR team -- say Armas -- is less talented than some other guy on your own team. But if you can't exploit his weaknesses, yet you CAN exploit the weaknesses of that other MORE talented guy who might replace him, who should play? The answer to that is obvious, obviously.
there is some truth to this, but I also have to say that people underestimate the talent of the US team.Euro nations get much more exposure to scouts, no work permit probelems etc. Also, please remember that speed,discipline and athletic ability IS talent.They are not irrelevant things.
I used to think that Pablo was the answer at d-mid because of his hard tackling, speed and passing skills. I was even irritated by the fact that Arena had plans to play him as a defender in recent friendlies until Pablo reminded me just how solid he can be as a defender. I honestly can't say where he can help us more at this point. As for Dempsey, it's probably too early for him but he has shown great potential for this role. Further down the line you have Szetela, who es exactly what we may need as a hard tackling, skillful d-mid. Again, he won't be of any help until he gains more experience at higher levels than the U-20 team.
Yaah, and DMB is too small and short to score on a head ball. SPEED is much more important than physical size - particularly in the midfield. We have big guys in goal, in central defense, and at striker. In the midfield you need control and speed - like Pele, Maradonna, and Donovan.
Everyone has some good points and seems interested, but let's answer this question. Who will lay down the law when a Jeremies type puts a boot in LD or Reyna's back? Harkes and Lalas used to great at this. They would get in that players face, push shove, yell, and then not to subtley send the message with a pretty blatant hack in return on either that player, or the oppositions most influential player. I like that, and think it is a very neccessary part of the game. We have been missing this to some extent. Armas doesn't fill that role, but "sigh" does do other things well. Pablo can, but in the mid he can be too rash and get pulled out of position easily. Gibbs has great fight, which I like a lot. May be Boca take son that roel. I think soemone nneds to. Has been missing for a while with the US, and with the rise of more skilled, speed type players, this role will become more important. Please chime in.....
I strongly believe that Mastroeni is now a central defender, and should not be discussed for his merits relative to Armas, but as one of our 3-4 "starting quality" central defenders (Boca,Pope,Gibbs) with a variety of decent options maturing behind them (Califf, Curtin, several younger players). I haven't seen us as lacking an "enforcer." I know people like to have one, but the most effective player I've seen in a Nats uniform somewhat recently of turning an opponent's violent tactics against them has been Cobi Jones. He absorbs the punishment, gets the call, bounces back up, runs right by you and lets you foul him again so you can earn your red card. Armas has shown an ability to mark very good attacking midfielders; Gibbs and Boca have shown an ability to step into the former Llamosa role and mark a good physical striker. We can start two big, aggressive, physical forwards when we want, and some of our just-off-the-radar strikers are big, physical players. The only games since '01 that I think you can say we were pushed around were during the Confederations Cup, in which we played a pretty young and inexperienced team. I just don't think we've been intimidated, such that we need Franchino on the Nats to beat up the other team.
I don't know. Take a look at the Cypress Hill video again and see Armas lay down the law on some green shirt guy
There's one more thing I think should be mentioned when we start thinking about trying to win a cup. Yes, hard work and organization can overcome skill. However, the teams that win the big ones have both. As has been pointed out, Brazil worked very hard in 2002, and they had the best players. Until we can match up player for player with top teams and retain our hard work and team play, we're still going to come up short. Not trying to some pessimistic, just realistic.
Maybe this isn't technically 'analysis', but last night on the airplane I saw the movie "Miracle" about the US Hockey team in 1980. The coach in the movie was heavily criticized for not picking the players that 'everyone knew' were the 20 best for his roster. But he insisted he picked the players he needed to win the tournament. I think everyone interested in the USMNT ought to take a look at this movie (corny though it is) and see some of the issues that a national team coach has to deal with in order to compete with more talented teams. The parallels between the 1980 US hocket team, and today's USMNT are striking.
So, are you saying that Chris Armas would have made the Olympic hockey team? I hope he's not cap-tied to Puerto Rico in hockey.
Not pessimistic. Great post. It is just a plain fact. The good thing is that we have the ethic and desire, and now the iinfrastructure is slowly getting there to help realize some of our young talent. Many countries with the infrastructure and skill don't have the attitude, ethic, work rate and desire (Portugal and Colombia are good examples) the US athlete has. Mentally the US environment breeds a certain toughness and willingness to work which can't be taught. As we produce better players with that attitude we will have a team to really be reckoned with. I have always said that 2010-2020 is going to be the renaissance for US Soccer. Nothing I see tells me this will not happen. We don't have to go into the young prospects, MLS youngsters, Brandenton, Euro interest, etc. Just through sheer numbers now, and growing, we will get there. Passionate (sometimes insane - yup, that's me) but realistic. 2010-2020 is closer than you think. I can rememeber watching matches in 94 like it was yesterday. 10 years later we are getting there. Big sign of progress. On the BBC pages go under Southhampton and look at the Beasley discussions by the fans. No slagging off ignorant Yanks. None of the "well if it was a keeper it would make sense crap." Not even wondering if he would play. Wondering what type of effect he would have on the team and a match. There is the usual fan debate about who else they want, P'ship proven players and if the money is being spent the right way, but none of the Yank bashing we are so used to. Another step forward. Field player - Yank - generally accepted he can play at the highest levels. Realistic with signs of progress. Slowly but surely.
Hmmm. Certainly true for attacking center mid types & wingers. But not so true of the (typically) 2 center mids who have the basic job of winning balls and making simple passes. Ask Edgar Davids, who had his butt so thoroughly kicked by the Germans yesterday that he had to be subbed at halftime. The Germans say that size does matter, and while it's fashionable to shrug them off as unfashionable oafs, I suspect that their theory will carry them along pretty far in this tournament, too.
Vieira might chime in on the size as an asset in central midfield debate too. I would say a mixture in midfield is needed if you want to win some balls from northern European sides.
Excellent point. I wish more people had your perspective. We've got more talent, more depth, more organization, more experience (on the field and in management) and higher expectations than ever before. It's been an amazing ride for this generation of US soccer fans.
We need to clearify few things: 1) Size is not exclusive with speed and skill. You can have a Donovan, Ronaldino, etc. who are great with the speed and skill, but it is also good with someone like Kaka, Gaven, etc. who also have a good size. It is not that important on the O side, but more important on D side when you have a Vieira. For D side, there is good with the speed and fitness, but BETTER with speed, fitness and size. 2) In morden game, there is very small space and very important to create a space for a prefer 1 vs. 1 situation. In our case, for example, when McBride is isolated with a 1 vs. 1 with defender, he probably is not good to do anything with it. What we need is that a McBride body type who can dribble over this one defender and score. Impossible? Check the Brazil roster. 3) We are deadly when we are in counter especially when Donovan has the ball, and Beasley and Convey are running alone him. When a Chris Klein has the ball, all will be for none (remember the early minutes against Brazil in Confed Cup).
I completely agree with this statement too. In fact, I think a dominant defensive midfielder is virtually essential for the USNMT to make "The Leap" (yeah, I know it's an overused phrase). And as of last month, I am on the Clint Dempsey bandwagon too. It's probably too late for him wrt the current WC cycle but he's still young. My only worry is that folks on BS are placing unrealistic expectations on Clint. At this time last year, the same kind of praise was heaped on Ricardo Clark (who may still develop into a very good player, but seems to have been dismissed and/or forgotten by many).
Actually, I think Casey does a pretty good job of this in more subtle ways. He really punishes the defenders and defensive mids that are trying to mark him. If a dmid put a thump on Donovan or DMB, it wouldn't surprise me to see them get leveled by Casey the next time a long goal kick is skying their way.