Now that the USMNT have crashed out of World Cup qualifying for 2018, I'd like to turn my focus to something I am really fascinated by: scouting of players, and particularly how the USSF handles scouting for selection to our many age-group national teams, both here and abroad. You all are probably familiar with Will Parchman's 2015 post for the TopDrawerSoccer "The 91st Minute" blog entitled "The Great American Scouting Crisis." Here is the choice quote from that piece: "Nine full-time scouts and 100 in the entire network for a nation two and a half times the size of the entire European Union. A crisis indeed." My question is (and my reason for starting this thread) "How is this situation changed (improved?) in the intervening 2.5 years since Parchman's article was published?" I feel like the subject of scouting is an under-reported one (and yes, I'm well aware of how difficult it is to get good quality, in-depth soccer journalism published these days), so I'd also like this thread to serve as a clearinghouse for any articles, videos, podcasts, etc. that are focused particularly on scouting of American players but also more broadly on the mechanics of player scouting. If you are a scout in the U.S. network, please feel free to share your experiences here, as best you can. References: https://www.whatahowler.com/httpswhatahowler-com201401foreign-aid-html/ (Article discussing Thomas Rongen's "List" of U.S. dual nationals) http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/the91stminute/2016/12/thomas-rongen-named-u-s-soccer-chief-scout/ http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...man-city-captured-englands-u17-world-cup-star (Article discussing how rising English star Phil Foden was discovered by one of Manchester City's local "undercover scouts") https://www.socceramerica.com/publi...elopment-academy-boosts-us-talent-qa-ton.html (2014 interview with Tony Lepore, current Director of Talent Identification) https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/20...er-tony-lepore-to-new-sport-development-roles http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/the91stminute/2015/08/the-great-american-scouting-crisis/ (Will Parchman's 2015 blog post)
Here is a list of the 11 full-time scouts (plus the director, Aloys Wijnker) U.S. Soccer currently employs: NAME TITLE AREA Aloys Wijnker Academy Director - Boys' Academy Scott Donnelly Technical Advisor - Northeast Cris da Silva Technical Advisor - N.Y. / N.J. Garrett Biller Technical Advisor - Mid-America Clint Peay Technical Advisor - Southeast Marcelo Neveleff Technical Advisor - Florida Scott Spencer Technical Advisor - Texas Arron Lujan Technical Advisor - Frontier Alex Zotinca Technical Advisor - Southwest Rob Elliott Technical Advisor - Atlantic Matt Dacey Technical Advisor - Pacific Northwest Austin Daniels Technical Advisor - NorCal They are called "Technical Advisors", in USSF parlance. When I get time, I'm going to try and find out more about these 11 TA's and how they contribute to identifying and selecting YNT players.
Interesting topic. Hope it shines a light on sort of the underbelly of US Soccer. We all see the results of this but don't really pay attention to it. Like refs it seems to be a spot that hasn't improved as much as other areas.
Here's my question: I wonder how many federations have extensive scouting networks. i would imagine that many rely primarily on their domestic professional clubs. Germany, for instance, might monitor the professional clubs youth teams on up to first teams. The domestic clubs would do all the heavy lifting by culling and sorting the players so that a relatively small number of scouts could cover the different age groups.
Only name that jumps out is Peay. U14 usynt coach. Google/Wikipedia will point you towards some of his connections. I don’t know him and he could be great at these jobs. Here is random info about most of the rest of them. https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/20...ointed-development-academy-technical-advisors http://www.metrofanatic.com/story.jsp?ID=4992 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Zotincă http://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/msoc/2013-14/releases/20140123akjq3r http://www.azyouthsoccer.org/austin_daniels_appointed_as_ussda_technical_advisor_/ http://www.naccsports.org/sports/msoc/2015-16/releases/20160505w8oca4 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Donnelly_(soccer_coach) Already moved on... https://www.revolutionsoccer.net/club/bios/marcelo-neveleff
Yeah. So many unanswered questions regarding scouting in the US. Seems like really fertile ground for a young, enterprising journalist to work in.
The Dummy podcast just interviewed Winkjer. Goes over the whole network and effort in detail. Sounds like things are getting better just by getting the kids into one place (the DA). That club (foreign and domestic) scouts have to do the heavy lifting and are starting to.
For what it's worth. I had a recent interaction with the Utah Youth Soccer Technical Director, Eric Landon, who mentioned he was a (part time) scout for USSoccer. He noted that he watches youth games including regional tournaments especially when they are geographically convenient. He specifically mentioned the Region IV Presidents Cup held in Utah in 2017. I assume he also attends the DA games now that RSL Academy plays in Utah. A local kid was at the U14 BNT camp recently, I assume in part on the recommendation of Landon. (I'm pretty sure that kid is with RSL Academy U15s even through I don't think they have officially had any games at this point). I assume this means that in addition to the 11 full time scouts they have enlisted additional folks to scout regionally. It would be interesting to know the full extent of the formal scout network.
Yeah, I don't think the federation should need a huge number of scouts. Clubs have a financial incentive to find the best players in their territory. And they know the scouts in their area, so they can tip them off about who their best players are. The clubs win, because they get good publicity by having players on national teams, and USSF wins because it doesn't need to hire an army of scouts to cover the same territory that the clubs are already scouting.
Okay, I've just listened twice to George Quraishi's interview with Tony Lepore on the most recent episode of the Dummy podcast, and I wanted to put my notes here, if for no other reason than to help document this really important conversation. First off, if you're AT ALL interested in scouting or talent identification, please go listen to the podcast. The interview with Lepore is fantastic, but George also talks with Aloys Wijnker and Nico Romeijn. My notes follow. Emphases are mine: Tony Lepore, USSF Director of Talent Identification * Purpose of Talent ID Dept.: Help improve scouting at all levels across the country & ID talent to help expand & improve NT pools * Around 600 players last year came through all levels of NT, from U-14 to U-20, and Lepore would like to increase that number this year now that the single-year NTs are implemented; the most expansive pools are the U-14s and U-15s * Pools need to be more expansive b/c scouts need to take a longer-term view, as players develop at different rates; the example Tony used was Weston McKennie: at U-14, he was really small, but he had the game understanding, decision-making and took responsibility off the field; had a late physical maturation path; eventually became captain at U-19 level and would've been a key cog in the U-20s, but was not released * Tony regularly looks back at players and how they flow through the NTs * Start scouting players at age 12, but don’t do much because it’s so early and there are so many variables, but scouts look for how they move, how comfortable with ball, how they understand the game, how they see themselves in game; intro. to program and what environment they’re in; what is their capacity to learn and what trajectory they’re on? * By U-19 level, players can have 100s of reports filed on them * Starting at U-14 level, full-time TAs start keeping depth charts of players in their areas * When DA started, scouting report database was created to centralize all reports coming in from NT camps/games, training centers, DA games; provide summary reports to NT coaches; recently changed digital platforms [don't know what platform they used, but would love to see this in action] so now info can be presented in a concise way, but ability to go in more detail, with the addition of video clips, etc.; color-coding and numbers for ratings; live calls with TAs every couple of weeks (@Dave Marino-Nachison, if only we could get our hands on all this data!!!) * 142 network scouts across the county, managed by, I believe, 10 or 11 TAs; as scouting network has been expanded, quality control has become an issue; try to get all scouts speaking same language; they use the international standard? [does anyone know what this means?] on rating scale; scouting the ’02s at the Nike Friendlies, was keeping a live depth chart, 55 active, 5 per position, another list under that * This was a direct quote from Tony: "…is a Bundesliga club here that has 7 scouts on the ground [at the Nike Friendlies]”; one club!!; I found this absolutely fascinating; he also mentioned that MLS clubs now have a much larger presence at bigger international events like the Friendlies * More MLS team scouts on the ground now; gather a bunch of info on players; scouting is really important for MLS clubs with residency academies; if you’re going to invest that much in a player, need to know as much as possible about them and they need to fit your team’s philosophy * Clubs, specifically Academy clubs, are becoming leaders in player development; this is a good development * And lastly, which I wish George had asked Tony to expand on, was the issue of scouting players who are playing abroad; 240-250 players abroad U-13—U-20 that Talent ID is following; formal scouting network overseas now set up; I would love to know more about how this network functions, how it's integrated into the domestic scouting apparatus, etc. All in all, I found this to be riveting and an exciting look into a really hidden aspect of US Soccer; go give it a listen and let me know what you thought of what Tony had to say.
On the one hand, this sounds kind of hard to believe. But on the other, if there's now enough data in their view to indicate that the U.S. can routinely produce guys who stand a good chance of being first-division contributors (or better) at 18-20, are willing to go overseas as teenagers, and who are available without transfer fees, it makes perfect sense.
I thought the 7 scouts were there for the DA championships but I could be wrong. Maybe they happened at the same time at the same place? With hundreds of kids and dozens of games in one place, makes sense to send as many scouts as needed rather than send them all over the US at another time.
Yeah, that's what I think Lepore meant. I think he was probably accurate that there were 7 scouts there from 1 Bund team, but there were A LOT of games doing on besides the Nike Friendlies.
Of course it does, but the idea that a single foreign club might see fit to be able to place 7 scouts in 7 places at a single event still seems noteworthy. It's always been hard to really know the shape and scale of foreign "scouting" here because clubs handle it so many different ways.
And speaking of foreign scouting, Travis Clark on Twitter just linked to this piece (in German) from Weser Kurier, a regional paper based in Bremen, about how Werder is scouting American players. I haven't had a chance to read it yet. https://www.weser-kurier.de/sport_artikel,-der-neue-markt-_arid,1676702.html
Sports teams are copy cats. Pulisic on a free is a lottery ticket. McKennie also on a free, now there is a feeding frenzy. Coming along at a time the USMNT really needs it too.
Wynton Rufer felt a bit like he was in Germany. At every turn he met men who traveled on behalf of Bundesliga clubs. Werder's former top scorer was not in Germany, but in Florida on the road. At Showcase, one of the country's biggest talent shows, Rufer was one of over 100 scouts They also talk up Isiah Young and Trevor Zwetsloot. I had not heard of the latter. Picture of Sargent's girlfriend too. Not bad... "We [Bremen] are," says Baumann, "very well positioned in this market." Baumann does not want to talk about a targeted offensive on the US market, but he says that Werder pursues some markets more intensively than others, "and that is with us America definitely the case ".
J.R. Eskilson over at TopDrawerSoccer published a four-part interview with Tony Lepore yesterday. It's only available to premium subscribers, and unfortunately I'm not able to subscribe right now. Do we have any subscribers who would be willing to summarize what Lepore said about scouting? Here are the links: https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/clu...-us-soccer-scouts-for-national-teams_aid43579 (part 1) https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/clu...expansive-us-soccer-scouting-network_aid43590 (part 2) https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/what-us-soccer-scouts-look-for_aid43598 (part 3) https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/clu...s-soccer-scouts-international-talent_aid43604 (part 4)
I gotcha ; ) Lots of scouting before the DA Winter Showcase. U16, U17, U18, U19, and U20 will be at the Florida camp in January at the same time. Up to 36 players per team. "There will be some movement too with some of the 00s playing with the 99s for the players who are on the track to be part of the U20 World Cup cycle. We also use the January camp to call in a lot of international players.” They have an ongoing depth chart between the scouts, coaches can see it too. The term "data" is thrown around a lot in the articles but kinda vague as to what that means. "We’re always providing them with bi-weekly summaries so there’s a lot of data now.” On scouting... “If you look at it like an organization chart, our department is me and my counterpart on the girls side Miriam Hickey. Underneath that is the Technical Advisors (TAs)...Then there are the network scouts. Combined there are over 200 scouts. For boys alone, there are 142 scouts. Each TA manages a network of around 10 scouts.” DA Winter Showcase is most scouted event for USYNT, MLS, and international scouts as well. "The Showcase also had scouts from nearly every club in the Bundesliga as well as MLS teams scouting all of the games involving non-MLS teams." “We have a lot of source documents that we use,” Lepore said when asked what attributes he tells the scouts for when identifying wingers. “It’s also built on video. It starts with our key qualities, our player profile, which is six key qualities." Doesn't say what six key qualities are but... "Decision-making and game understanding are the two key attributes for any position for what the U.S. Soccer scouts are looking for from potential international players." “For example with a wide forward, they need to have a lot of initiative, and want to take on players one v one,” Lepore said. “They need the technical elements as well including crossing... We want them to be able to create chances. It’s not necessarily just getting wide. It could be with coming inside. We need players who can get around and make crosses or come to the inside to create chances for themselves or for others.” The player profile goes beyond just what the player produces on the field, but also includes a physical description, but Lepore quickly cautioned that the physical traits are not that important to the scouts. On comparing ourselves to other countries... “But for the 17s, for example, Dave and I were in India [at the 2017 U17 World Cup],” Lepore continued. “What we were doing was trying to do benchmarking. In terms of how do our players compare, where are the gaps. We tried to go through every position. U17 Men’s National Team head coach John Hackworth also did a really informative presentation with all of the DA Directors and coaches last night. We did a series of workshops and said here are the positions where we have guys who are international level and here’s positions where there is a gap.” This year they've started scouting overseas with US Soccer scouts. “On top of that, we are now assigning scouts to games (the same way we do domestically), and we are educating them,” Lepore said. “I have two guests scouts here this week [at the Academy Showcase] who work for us internationally, so they can see it live and they can see how we are doing because that’s an even harder comparison. They’re not as familiar with our Youth National Teams in each age group.” “We have the biggest [presence] in Mexico,” Lepore said. “We have two part-time scouts [in Mexico]. We assign them to games. Germany is the next. We have two part-time scouts there. England would be third. We have one part-time scout there. We are trying to find a couple more. We also have a scout in Scandinavia now that we just activated.” Lepore also mentioned the Netherlands and Italy as areas with the attention of scouts or as areas for part-time scouts. The task for these scouts are similar to the domestic-based scouts. 240 to 250 players overseas they're tracking right now, from U14-U20 “Mexico is the biggest, Germany is next, England is third.” “There are some 12 year olds who are on our radar, but just like domestically we don’t start following too early because the predictors of future success have so many variables,” Lepore said. “The number goes smaller at 19, by the way. It’s this curve. At 19, it becomes pretty clear (who is going to make it). At 12, it is pretty unclear so we don’t spend too much time there." Sometimes parents just cold call US Soccer lol “We have so many cold calls on this too,” Lepore said. “When I say cold call, I mean a parent emailing us and saying our child is playing for this club. We say okay, this is part of our associates role. We have a process there. We respond to everybody through our scouting at ussoccer.org. We are the Federation. We want to serve our customer. That is what we are doing. There are a lot of parents overseas that are worried we aren’t going to know about their son who might be on a Youth National Team pathway. Then there is a bunch of information that we request, which usually consists of video, but we also need to see a passport because a lot of times it can be complicated to get your citizenship.” Lepore estimated that it’s a small percentage of the players they are tracking who come from cold calls, but “it certainly happens. Although, a lot don’t pan out.” However, he did give an example for how the cold call turns into an appearance at a Youth National Team camp. “There certainly have been parents emailing us about their son playing in Argentina and then we go to our network there and ask them to help us find out a little bit more information,” Lepore said. “Then we can decide if we want more information and if we want to start following this player. The last step is assigning a scout to see the player live after we’ve seen the video. That’s a really close communication between Talent ID and Youth National Teams usually myself, Tab [Ramos] and the specific age group coach.” Kinda implied this actually happened but fairly vague.^^ Another avenue for discovery is information gathering, which Lepore detailed as a task for associates within the Talent Identification office. “We are always digging for information,” Lepore said. “It’s the same process as looking at rosters and assigning it to one of our associates or coordinators to dig through rosters and alert us if they’re with top academies. That’s always a good start. We have many U.S. players with top academies who are not ahead of the ones here [playing in the U.S.] so it’s not like we have a kid at a [top] academy, let’s bring him in.” Remind me when the next one comes out and I'll give ya the 411.
I have a hunch that could be Matko Miljevic of Argentinos Juniors academy, a stocky '01 midfielder (5'8" 170 lbs) who has played for our U16s this year. A completely out-of-nowhere callup from Argentina, turns out he was born in Miami, FL and left the US at age 1. Certainly quite possible his parents contacted the USSF first (after not receiving callups to Argentina YNTs), as I doubt the USSF somehow discovered him first. '99 YNT striker Nebiyou Perry contacted the USSF first by mailing them video of his play, after getting a few Sweden YNT callups but not getting playing time. This is according to an article in his Yanks Abroad thread. He was born in New York and moved to Sweden at age 8.