Seemed like a pretty logical conclusion of Coach McHick, especially since the discussion was about how 'bamans don't want to pay for better schools. If the argument is rural versus urban, then what's point? The USA Today article had statewide averages? New York has lots of rural areas and Alabama has lots of urban areas.
I'm sure Coach McHick and IowaPeckerwoodBoy can give you the WalMart Christian take on things, but they believe that gayness is a disease that can be cured.
OK, let's see if this help: New York has a much higher percentage of urban area than Alabama does, therefore NY will have to pay more to educate it's populace than Alabama. If anything, I was arguing against the person that said that NY and NJ had bad schools but spent the most money. Money spent can't be a comparison due to geographical factors. Of course I do realize you were too busy trying to feel superior to anyone who happens to live below the Mason-Dixon line. And, wow, I belive gayness is a disease and can't be cured? Man, that's news to me since I've never once said anything about the "genesis of gayness" on this board or in public, for that matter. I guess only a truly educated and enlightened person like yourself can read the minds of people and conclude what their thoughts are on issues. Or are you falling for the most ignorant trap their is, the stereotype? "Well, he's from Texas, he must hate gay people and want them to change". Silly Revolt, thinking like that's for kids (and the supremely dimwitted).
Come on Revolt. You're telling me it costs anywhere the same amount to school a child in Montgomery as it does on the Upper West Side?
Hey, he was the first "Upper-crust" Southerner who came to mind. They showed GWTW in high school (Alabama), but I made a point to skip that class those days. Surprisingly, we didn't get tested on it (that may happen in coming years, tho). Love your banner, BTW. I told you in Football the bet was a bad idea. The 'Horns don't deserve fans as faithful as you. If you're gonna use incorrect grammar, you may as well use incorrect grammar correctly.
Yes, Roy Moore and much of the state of Alabama are a bunch of idiots. I love the place, but it's times like these that pain me. Literally, it makes me sick to my stomach. Thankfully, I went to a public school where the local citizens cared about education. Since I've been voting age (about 10 years) we voluntarily raised our taxes 2-3 times on measures to specifically increase funding to the local system while the rest of the state was making cuts. Of course, I went to one of the top 4 or 5 public schools in the state. My wife & I both are from there and we're probably moving back soon. I don't know how, but I'm going to devote myself to improving the place in some shape, form, or fashion. I'm in an interracial marriage and can honestly say I've never had any problems from anyone, but like I said, we lived in an urban area. Anyway, there's no explaining this one away, although I do find it bizarre that the legistlation barring interracial marriage was removed from the constitution, but this measure failed. Who knows. The place is so wonderful in some ways, and so completely ********ed in others.
Well I'm glad to see that you've at least modestly stepped up the quality of your insults. Heck, at this rate you and your sis ought to be on Springer any time now.
I have a question for all of you railing against the South. If the Democratic party is the one of compassion, why do you all have no compassion for these people? Perhaps it should be treated as an area needing help, instead we're merely condemned by you all to "******** ourselves." It's almost as if you take pleasure in its failures. I consider myself an independent politically. The Republican party is one of the greatest magic tricks of all time...making people see things that don't really exist. Honestly though, I don't feel I can put much stock in the Democratic party either (though that's the way I most often vote.) Democrats are so quick to point out the self-righteousness of Republicans that they themselves can't see they're often sporting that same attitude. If you really want to be the party of the people, shut the ******** up and do something constructive because writing people off or berating them is the surest way to antagonize them.
Not to mention that in most places in upstate NY everything is still pretty expensive relative to the rest of the country.
Only if we can be on the same show as you, your gay lover, and the "priest" who conducted the ceremony.
I thought conservatives were compassionate. My best schadenfreude moments usually involve southerners and their peculiar customs - much as flowergirl so aptly put it. The problem is that southerners, aside from their cutesy antics on shows like Springer and Cops, too often fly the flag and religion in my face, seem to love war with almost sadistic glee, and have that little historical thing with racism, slavery and the rebel flag. Southerners are also a lot more likely to be really, really concerned with my bedroom habits, dress and devotion to the flag. I'm still pissed that Jerry Falwell wanted me to buy Kruggerands before the end of apartheid in South Africa, thank you very much. For every Tennessee Ernie Williams there seem to be a dozen Zell Millers in the south. Plus, y'all gave us the most irritating sport known to mankind: Nascar. Finally, outside of New Orleans and Miami, the South has to have the crappiest collection of cities in America (Atlanta, Charlotte, Houston. Yuck. If these aren't enough reasons to be self-righteous, I don't what would be.
I can't speak for anyone here, but I have an idea where some of the berating comes from. Some of this applies to rural areas regardless of region. Nico, you have to come to grips with the fact that a reasonable number of our fellow Southerners are still fighting the Civil War, in the sense that they resent the cultural influence of the major cities (and not just the Northern ones; I've heard more whining and griping about Atlanta from Middle Georgians than from anyone anywhere else I've ever lived, and ATL is no true metropolis- not yet)just as their ancestors resented the "interference" of the North on their way of life. There's a very anti-cultural, anti-urban streak in our region, and the efforts by "outsiders" to change that only seems to make it worse. I don't know why it is, but it is. I want to say it's tied in with racial prejudice, but I'm not sure that's the whole picture. The rural South and rural Midwest are different from the more educated, cultured areas of the country. Even the coastal areas of the South have stubbornly retained their unique personalities. They are more openly religious (not more moral, as the South's clinging to Jim Crow and building private schools to evade desegregation cancels out any "values" it may ever claim to possess), more traditional, less concerned about education as it applies to enlightenment, less well-traveled, less well-read, more suspicious of people from outside their culture, less interested in institutions from other cultures (like soccer) and more demonstrably patriotic/xenophobic/nationalistic than the rest of us. Why they choose to remain so is beyond me. But you're right- when those "outsiders" cannot understand (and neither can I, FWIW) why their advice isn't put to use, they resort to attacks on the region as a whole. The problem is, there isn't any nice way to tell someone "you're living in the 19th century, and you need to step up". What galls me more than the insults from Northerners (even directed at Black folks, but once I make it clear who I am and what I stand for, they don't insult me personally, but treat me as a cultural equal) is the refusal of Southerners to make the insults go away by stepping up. This vote on removing the language from the Alabama constitution is exactly the sort of thing that keeps the stereotypes and the insults alive. You could go outside your home, walk down the street and ask 20 people about this legislation. Ten would tell you they don't care whether it stays or not. If you were to point out that only X number of states even retain laws like this on their books, and that all of them were part of the old Confederacy, at least five would respond by saying something akin to "I don't care what (insert Northern state with a major city here) does. We're in Alabama". They don't want any help. They don't think they need any help. They think they're fine as they are. That's why the insults come. How do you deal with people like this, whose votes count as much as your own, whose voice in governmental affairs is as loud as or louder than your own, who have just as much right to affect America's direction as you do, who do not reject, but embrace the backwardness of their ways? At some point the frustration boils over, and that's when the insults you've posted about start coming forth. They don't want to be part of the party of the people, Nico; they want to be as close to the Confederate, christian (small "c"), rural, closed-off-to-cultural expansion, English-only, Whites-first (yes, that too) region of their very recent past as they can be. I'm sorry; for this they deserve everything said about them and more. Neither have I (as you saw in my previous post), nor do I plan to; but I do know a few quotes from it.
What does that have to do with the price of rice in China? If you're looking for a defense of the party of "W"...then you're barking up the wrong tree. Glad to see blind hatred is working well for you.
I know, I've wrestled with it more than you could ever imagine. My grandfater was racist as hell, yet I didn't let that change my behavior by not bringing my non-white girlfriends and friends around. I'm sure he wanted to kick my teeth out sometimes, but I wasn't going to change that part of me for him, just like I'm sure he wasn't going to change it for me. It's hard to fight with the ones you love. On the other side of the coin, my wife's parents actually said to my face, "Wouldn't it be better for everyone if you went off and married a white girl and made her and her family happy? You don't belong with our daughter" You know, I almost caved in, because they made my life miserable at times (and still do on occasion.) I've also had a gun shoved in my face by a black guy and told to get out of his neighborhood because I was white. So believe, me, I know the ugliness that can raise its head here. I've seen it on all sides, though I admit, it most often comes from white folks. Another time, one of my best friends from childhood shocked the ******** out of me by saying he thought my relationship with my wife was wrong (my wife & I were only dating at the time.) Man, that ********ing crushed me. You have no idea. I was friends with this guy from birth and we got into a fight like you couldn't imagine. Yelling, screaming, etc. However, months later, he called me and told me he was wrong, who was he to judge our happiness? Sure, it's just one example, but I sincerely believe that people can change. Yeah, it might only be a few at a time, but for me, running away isn't an option. My roots are there, and if I'm considered some kind of freak for my beliefs, then so be it, but I'm not giving up on the place. This too, I know. I had someone from Opeleika tell me they pretty much viewed Birmingham and Atlanta as Sodom & Gomorrah. I can't explain it either, but it's there. However, I know too many good people there to write the place off. I personally think it is a most puzzling mixture of pride and fear. The Southern mentality is harder to peg though than most people make it out to be. I myself am torn with it too. On the one hand, I yearn for some of the better things about other parts of the country, however, there are things about it that I think the rest of the country could learn from. I know I have a bizarre mixture of defiance and shame inside myself. It pains me to see stuff happen like Ammendment 2, but then I get defiant when someone gets in my face about. In some ways, we're a defeated people and I think it shows in the mentality of many folks...although it'd be nigh impossible for them to recognize that in themselves. It's weird. I can't explain it. I'll certainly give you that. I wonder about that myself. Like I've said in other places, my hope is in the younger generations. A lot of the older are still around and they perpetuate a lot of those ideas. I do, however, see less and less of that amongst young people. My parents have some hangups, but NOTHING like my grandparents did. My brothers and I, however, have none of that in us. Maybe it's because we grew up from birth around black people, Asians, Latin Americans, etc. I'd hear things my parents or grandparents would say, and it caused me internal dissonance because my experiences didn't match up with the things they'd say. Now, I know not everyone is going to be like that, but I'd like to think it will improve with successive generations. 40 years feels like a long time to me because I'm only 28, but it really isn't. Now, that's no excuse for a lot of the crap people do, but just think how much better it is in 2004, than 1964. That isn't a reason to smile after eating a shit sandwich, but it is getting better. I don't smooth over what's happening, but we've got to look ahead too and measure relative progress without justifying the current circumstance. I believe that to be a DUTY of those of us that ARE educated and DO know better. We can't always throw the past in people's faces. You think I like having slavery jokes made to me? Well, people here make 'em to me. Yeah, there's ammunition for them to be made, but that person wouldn't make a nazi joke to a German. Sure, it'd be easy to say "Yeah, you're right ******** Alabama, I'm not going back," but it isn't that easy for me. Countries and regions all over the world are going through this, the situation isn't unique. Of course, this one causes more pain because it is at home. Honestly, I believe the only way is to just to live right and be an example. I always think of Gandhi shaming the British with his superior behavior. Unfortunately, this isn't something that can be lectured about. It can be discussed with individuals, but it isn't something likely to be rectified standing behind a podium or written about in a newspaper column. I know that I find the self-righteousness of a Californian talking to me about race relations to be somewhat comical after over 50 deaths, thousands of injuries, thousands of arrests and hundreds of millions of dollars in damage just 12 short years ago. I don't deny that their are problems in the South, I just think other people need to own up too, even if it is worse here. Perhaps they do, perhaps they do. I guess I just believe in trying to take the high ground in these things. Meeting hatred with hatred is what fuels the Israeli/Palestinian; India/Pakistan type of situations in the world. Are there legitimate reasons to hate? Yes sir, without a doubt, but I just can't give myself over to that.
Been there a couple times, as I've said before. As most of my schools up 'til college were pretty even in terms of race, you meet people who are from different races and go out with them sometimes. My folks were nice if a White girl came by (I was a year ahead, and so most of my classmates drove before me) to pick me up or if I brought one home, but they were even frieldlier when she was Black. Man, that had to suck. They're your in-laws, too. My folks always say they'd do their best to get along with whatever girl I decided to marry even if they didn't like her, for whatever reason. I hold them in the highest esteem for this, knowing that so many in-laws don't get along. Their issues have never really been with an individual's color, but with the experiences people of different races have and how it shapes their worldview. You should have told him "Every neighborhood is MY neighborhood! We own everything as far as you can-" I kid, I kid... he'd have just shot you. That guy was suffering from a serious case of "hate 'em all". I know some Black folks like that, and try not to be seen with them if I don't have to. At least he turned around, and was man enough to admit he was wrong. This part I don't understand. If they'd simply stop reliving the Civil War, they wouldn't be a defeated people. No one outside the 13 cares about the War anymore. It's the Southerners who go on and on about it. All of America won that damn war; either a loss by the Union or a successful secession by the South would have prolonged the slave trade. The Civil War needed to be fought, and everyone living within these borders today should feel proud that it went down the way it did. We should be able to look back on the confederacy for what it was -a bad thing- without worrying about what side our relatives were on. You're no more a slaveholder than I am. Point out the things you're doing to make the world a better place (I consider your marriage as such a thing), and if they don't get it, they don't. It's about the people here who refuse to change their ways. The relative progress I can't help you with, because the people that deserve the jokes you hear are willingly taking two steps back for every one you take forward. California had Reagan and Nixon as governors; that's almost as bad as Wallace. Worse in some ways, because both those sorry rotting-corpse motherfvckers got into the White House. I meet hatred with hatred, here, because I know they mean it. I know now more than ever, after 11/2. But my hatred is usually not directed at Southerners, because they're not really around BigSoccer, but neocons from outside the South.
Re: Fvck the South Part DEUX I disagree. That might be a small part of it. But mostly it's just about hatin' black people...