The Road from Here, Reprise

Discussion in 'MLS: Commissioner - You be The Don' started by triplet1, Oct 1, 2018.

  1. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Newcastle paid a club record transfer fee acquiring him in the winter window...from Atlanta.
     
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  2. s1xoburn

    s1xoburn Member

    Aug 25, 2014
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    I believe the typical viewership for every single soccer team that could be in a super league would be higher in the super league than outside of it, and for some significantly so.

    I realize saying Miguel Almiron "wanted so badly" to go to EPL sounds somewhat condescending and I didn't mean it that way. If I was a soccer player I would want to eventually leave MLS and play in Europe, so I am not knocking him, but simply that right now you have four-five "top leagues", but I would be curious if MLS wouldn't be given a bit of a boost by having all of the non-super league teams suddenly become a bit less desirable since there would be a clear step down. If you go to La Liga you can play against Messi.

    More generally I think one benefit the NBA/NFL/MLB/NHL have is that they are unquestionably the best leagues in the world in their sport, and so you know you are watching the best players. It alway struck me as odd that soccer didn't have the same thing.
     
  3. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #453 EvanJ, Apr 1, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
    There's some stuff that feyenoordsoccerfan doesn't know that a person needs to know if he posts in an MLS forum and wants to convince people anything. I told him once that he should pick an American city and read about multiple sports from a newspaper's website to learn about salary caps, drafts, free agency, unbalanced schedules, playoffs, trading players to reduce your salary, wanting to lose to get the best draft picks, promoting players from minor leagues, some positions being considered so much more important than others (most notably quarterbacks), revenue depending on the size of a team's city and their ratings on a regional sports network, and other things that apply to some American leagues and teams but not European soccer clubs.

    If you had never lived in North America, would you feel the same way?
     
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  4. s1xoburn

    s1xoburn Member

    Aug 25, 2014
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Maybe not, because national leagues is all you would ever know. But having top players in the world go to PSG to demolish domestic competition and then flame out of the champions league just seems like a waste. According to the 538 soccer power index, there next most highly ranked Ligue 1 team is Lyon at 35. PSG is 6th. Do you think any 76ers fans (the 6th best NBA team) wish they could play the equivalent of Spanish basketball league teams and then join the NBA for the playoffs?
     
  5. First. Europe (when we talk about leagues that matter, it's about Euro leagues) isnot one homogeneous country like the USA. It consists of countries that until very recently (the Balkan) fought each other and all are different culturally and socially.
    Second. Those USA leagues are without competition inside the USA. Unlike the structure in the USA, in Europe that superleague would have competition like those USA leagues have never seen inside the USA.
    Third. All broadcasters in Europe are territorial limited. Not by law, but simply by being media for a national identity. For instance the BBC is free on the cable in the Netherlands, but hardly anybody watches it.
    They are also nationally tied because of difference in languages, which in a way links with the first point.
    What constitutes the best league isnot as clear cut in Europe like it's in the USA. The point that's grossly overlooked by Yanks projecting their monoculture leagues properties on Europe is the fact that of every country in Europe fans value their own domestic league the most. So the epl can be regarded by the USA fans as the best league, but in Europe it does hardly make people in France, Germany choose it over their own league. The fact that when Manchester City plays against Liverpool and thus fielding top players of the world doesnot make German choose it over the Kohlenpot derby of Schalke vs Borussia.
    When the BeNed Liga comes up in the news again, the resistance against it from fans and clubs alike is huge. And then we're talking about two countries that are more alike than any other country in Europe (but also still very different countries anyway).
     
  6. I think you need to realise a league competition is something different from a knock out competition. The Champions League isnot a league like competition. It's a "you get one chance round of two matches" to progress or not.
    PSG has been one of the last 8 teams for a couple of seasons now.
    If it was a superleague, of those last eight only one can get the title, so still 7 flame out by ending below the number one spot.
    What Yanks donot get is that the domestic fans of those clubs willnot like their club ending in a superleague midtable spot. They can accept being knocked out in the CL in one of the final rounds (semi-quarter- or eighth final) as that's part of the game. But when for instance Chelsea would end for years in spot 8, the local support will be gone soon, as it's different from ending 2 to 4 in the epl. There a spot behind the title winner still means something in getting access to confrontations with European powers. In the socalled SL any spot less than nr 1 is meaningless.
     
  7. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    = 24 million Euros.

    You're missing the cultural element. It's difficult for a Liverpool fan to relate to someone from Barcelona or Turin in the same way as they can relate to a London or Manchester fan. There's no rivalry, no passion.
     
  8. Indeed. The USA is one country with an artificially limited league size. Europe is 50+ countries with each an own football history and leagues that reflect that.
    The CL hasnot created Europe wide rivalries. When Juve plays against Real, hardly anybody but the club fans cares about it.
    That's what Yanks drooling about a EuroSL can't get. The only ones that care about that are the "fans" in Asia and the USA, and those live in time zones not particular interesting if you also have to keep the local fans happy.
     
  9. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The US does not have an artificially limited league size. In fact the opposite. The leagues could keep on expanding almost indefinitely.
     
  10. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  11. Closed system (with a fake P/R) and a continent wide limited number of clubs in it.
    Stupid in the sense of alien to the European Union.
     
  12. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey, the Dutch introduced modern capitalism, they should at least take some responsibility :cool:
     
  13. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Keep the discussion to MLS, guys.
     
  14. waltlantz

    waltlantz Member

    Jul 6, 2010
  15. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    The issue with unions is that they will err to benefit the current members over building the business for the future members. Quite simply, current members currently waiting out their contracts don't want the added expenses to be a burden on them. For fans and clubs those payments could fund initiatives that would highly benefit developing players. But developing players aren't PA members....
     
  16. JoePanther

    JoePanther New Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Jun 23, 2019
    I think US soccer, particularly the MLS still has tons of growth and we haven't seen the tip of the iceberg yet. I think attendance 50K + and larger ratings will iron itself out. I'm not saying this because i'm just some stupid American. The league has grown ten-fold since the 90's, and even a decade ago. Soccer is the #3 sport in the age bracket of 18 and below. We're really beginning the second generation of soccer fandom and it's only growing bigger. Just think what it will be after the World Cup is played here in 2026, as well as those that are currently 18 become 30 and are now you're paying audience.

    I won't dismiss that there are things that the MLS can be better at. They need to do a better job at promoting the game. And since things are going more to the streaming route, promotion is going to be huge.

    I don't think that the MLS will end up being on the level of the EPL and other leagues, anytime soon. But surely with a ton of investment, it can close the gap and provide a strong product that all will be proud of and invest in as well.
     
  17. waltlantz

    waltlantz Member

    Jul 6, 2010
    Pump the breaks on attendance there.

    20K stadiums selling out are just fine.

    Key is media revenue.
     
  18. There's one issue with USA PTP clubs that is absent in the European context. Money payed in the TC/SP setting in Europe/Netherlands go into clubs that are amateur clubs/not for profit foundations. So in the EU case the money flows into the development of kids, while in the PTP/USA setting the foremost objective is to make a profit, hence that money most likely disappears from the development purses.
     
  19. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A European 10-year-old who is in a club's youth academy is competing with other players in the academy, but not with players around the country or world. American kids are competing for scholarships at the best colleges, and that applies to many sports. It's just like have exams to get into elite Kindergartens. Parents feel like a PTP club and/or private K-12 schools are worth it if they are the difference between a full athletic scholarship and no scholarship. College sports being popular is unusual around the world. People respond to incentives, and a lot of organizations would have to change their policies to stop the desire for PTP or the advantages of playing for them. A P2P club has to work with the professional and college environment. A P2P club can't tell clubs and and colleges what to do just like schools can't tell employers who to hire and what skills to want.
     
  20. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    P2P are about getting your kids a scholarship.
     
  21. Dunno what this all has to do with my remark about where the TC/SP money ends on either side of the big pond.
     
  22. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    So you believe that, outside of fans of Liverpool and Spurs, no one cared about the final?
    You're implying that Euro cities are not full of kids and adults wearing RealMad and Barca and PSG and assorted superclub shirts, despite those shirts representing clubs from different cities, or countries?
    I gotta say, I think you're making a case based on what you wish were the case, not what is. Germans beyond Bavaria tune in mass numbers to watch BMunch play. They have a healthy audience week in, week out, and a super league could boost that. this is why they are among the most intense advocates of a super league.
    Same for RMad and Barca and Juve.
    Right now, the English clubs are putting the brakes on the superleague chatter because their TV contracts are so insanely lucrative, but it has the feel of a negotiation more than a point on principle.
     
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  23. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #475 Paul Berry, Sep 2, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
    A Finnish friend in Helsinki has a teenage son. His favorite team is Barcelona and he has posters of them all over his wall. His friends either support Spanish or English clubs. He hasn't started going to games yet. At some point he may start following a local team. I think this is a common situation in most European countries, if not across the world. Kenyan bars are packed for Premier League games while the local stands are empty. Maybe not Holland.

     

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