I really don't see the point in two holding, defensive minded midfielders. The only way Reyna is an offensive threat is when we control the ball in the final third and he can pick people out, he is horrible in transition. Don't get me wrong, he is still our best player but what's with all the square passes??.. He needs to look up once in a while.. Granted JOB was hurt but Armas shouldn't be on this team. He is an MLS player and that's it.. I thought Pablo was much better when given the chance but either way we need an attacking player alongside Reyna in the future. I think Convey or JOB, when he isn't hurt. We are not going to create many/any chances with the Reyna/Armas midfield against quality teams. Twice, Jaap Freaking Staam was able to WALK the ball to within 35 yards of our goal before any defender was in the picture, that was embarrassing.
I agree Armas is a liability against quality teams. He is servicable against Concacaf competition, which is why he played yesterday.
Reyna should get Armas role, and either Mathis (favored) or O'Brien/Convey should get Reyna's role....there is no other solution, really...(we need Claudio on field, and he is excellent at breaking up attacks- which is important)... The only option is a return of Mastro, who when on form, is a definite improvement on Armas too (offensively, defensively about the same)..
Totatlly agree. I thought Convey did well in the middle yesterday. The front 5 they finished with yesterday can be very dangerous, and they are almost all interchangable This lineup can be killer Wolff Beasley Mathis LD Convey Reyna Fullbacks Goalie
It is at the very least a line-up that should be put out in a friendly. Could even put Obrien in there and go with 3 at the back.
Just some stats to back this up: Reyna 98 caps 8 goals + Armas 52 caps 2 goals = Not a lot of offense.
The mistake you are making is lumping Reyna and Armas together. The second mistake is look for goals from your central defensive midfielders. No team gets many from that position.
I've long had the same thoughts about the Armas / Reyna connection. It just seems obvious to me that Reyna is the perfect d-mid in the Keane mold, and there is no reason not to play him there. He breaks up more attacks than Armas anyway. He isn't a classic #10 attacker, and trying to make him one is a mistake. He should definately slot in behind Mathis or Convey or Donovan or O'Brien - that would be a foundation for a very dangerous midfield.
Far enough, so you think Armas is crap... BUT I think the original point was that Armas AND Reyna cannot be on the field together. I completely agree. They cancelled each other out in the match against Holland. Armas has never been an offensive machine... his job is purely to hold. Yes he does well this side of the globe, and as much as I love the guy, I do think he was invisible in the match... perhaps he is NOT the man for the job. Reyna on the other hand, I just don't know anymore. He is NOT an attacking midfielder. He hangs onto to the bloody ball way to much and lets an entire army get back defensively by the time he has decided what to do with the ball. No creativity! Davids shut him down and kept him facing his on defense all game. I have noticed this about Reyna ever since the WC 2002. Same thing... the US gets moving forward, find Reyna in the middle and it all dies. Pablo is by far more versatile in this role. I hope his form can improve to find a spot on the team. O'Brian can play anywhere. And attacking wise, between Clint and Landon and Bobby Convey, you have numerous options. Bobby Convey played well there, even if his youthfulness/inexperience at that level should. p.s. Someone put a freakin hit out on Frankie Hedjuk already!!!! Man, do I miss Tony Sanneh.
I agree that Reyna and Armas in a 4-4-2 don't give us enough attacking creativity in our midfield. I would actually prefer to see Bruce play a 3-5-2, with Reyna and O'Brien as our defensive mids, and Mathis as our attacking mid. It also solves the problem of finding a right back, since you can play Pope as the right back in a 3-5-2 (with Boca in the middle and Gibbs on the left).
For those who think Reyna played poorly yesterday - you should note that his offensive play improved markedly after Edgar Davids was subbed out. Davids is a great D-mid and was in Reyna's hip pocket the whole game - Claudio simply could not go forward with the ball with Davids covering him.
The problem with slotting Reyna to d-mid is that he does not have the stamina or tenacity as an Armas. I also think that is why he will not ever play right back for us. I am just guessing here but it seems that for some positions Arena has a narrowly defined prototype/ideal that he feels is crucial to playing that position. And he feels that tenaciousness/toughness/work-rate are much more important for a destroyer D-mid than offensive skills (like a Makelele type - except Makelele does have more skill not quite as much as Davids but much closer to Davids than to Armas). I also think that Arena thinks that you have to be unflappable to play fullback (kind of a robot for emotion - no goons no intimidators). And that is why he doesn't use Mastroeni in the defense - because he doesn't think he is mentally tough enough. I don't agree with these values - but this is my impression to how Arena is thinking.
No, the mistake of lumping Armas and Reyna together is Bruce's, not mine. I don't expect many goals but when you play in CONCACAF and you only get 10 goals out of 150 caps from your central midfielders, that's bad.
Good post, I think you hit the nail on the head. Ill add that for Arena puts his D-Mid on a leash, you seldom will see them make runs into offense or put aggressive pressure on a team. I think that further limits any offensive contribution Armas can make, as his best offensive attributes in MLS are when hes quickly pushing into the attack after ball winning, something he cant do when his shackled to the defensive end. I think Arena also has more preconceptions, and personally Im beginning to wonder if his vision of how the game should be played is holding certain players back who could contribute at this level.
I thought that Armas and Reyna played pretty good yesterday together. I felt they did as much offensively as they could considering they had to to watch Frankie Heysuck's back the whole game.
Nice job..the last 3 posters have basically just returned us back to the status-quo (Keep Reyna and Armas where they are)....meaning we have 2 aging midfielders who can't produce near enough offensively (as if it didn't show yesterday) to beat really good teams.. Guys, you gotta keep some vision here...what we saw yesterday is not going to get it done (hasn't that been proven a few times now?). And Reyna and Armas are only going to get worse in those roles (age, skills slipping) and you want to keep status quo?
What crack are you smoking? paulo commented on Bruce's tendancies. Dynamo Kev complained about their goal scoring record. I expanded on Paulo's point, saying that his preconception of positions limits our available pool gofire actually did say keep armas and reyna So that one that argues the exact opposite, two that dont comment other than to try and get in Bruce's head, and a third that supports it. Hardly 3 that argue for the status quo.
I just feel like Reyna and Armas run the midfield pretty well. They are aggresive and distribute the ball well. How could they have been more offensive minded when they had to worry about the Dutch raping our right side with Heysuck? And even if Heysuck wasn't in there, why the hell would you want to be too offensive in a close game and risk giving up a counter to a skilled team like Holland?
Claudio's days at AttackingMid should be reduced and given to Mathis & Convey. He lacks creativity and does not pose any threat. Mathis has shown for the US and at Hannover he is capable of running the teamat Central Mid. His vision is the best on the US. Reyna should be pushed to DMid - RMid - and even RB. Look at Holland, Cocu used to be a mid player for many years, and is now taking his role as a Central Defender - damn good one. Claudio has played, and played well, at RB and RM for Rangers. Armas...his days are numbered - too bad since he missed out on WC.
not so fast, lone starr! I do *not* advocate a Reyna/Armas center midfield for most (any?) opponents. My post was about what we can expect with Arena as head coach. I don't think he cares what critics say, so suggesting wide changes are a little futile. Although, I have to give you some credit for starting this thread - it has stimulated some opinions. Here is my take (but I think it is unlikely to be realized). I agree that Mathis is more creative (looks over the top more often and quicker in transition) than Reyna and would likely do better in that attacking center midfield role. Reyna During the game I said exactly what you said in the first post - "What is it with all of these square balls to Eddie Lewis?" You know several times Reyna passed the ball wide to Eddie Lewis because it was the safe ball and while I can appreciate keeping posession - that ball basically forced our offense into a low percentage opportunity: trying to get Eddie to beat a man one-on-one and get a good quality cross to McBride to either put on goal or dink to Donovan. Maybe this would work against some opponents it just seemed ineffective against Holland and I would have expected so before kick-off. I would have much preferred Reyna move with the ball through the center of the field and take our risks by trying to thread a quick ball into space for Donovan or some cheeky runs by McBride that could have gotten him open for a flick in the air on the back post. These kind of plays may be low percentage for the kind of player in your rec league but Donovan and Reyna are two of the best skilled persons we have and McBride is no slouch at getting open or getting an opportunistic goal. Eddie Lewis is a fine player but not really able to get a quality cross off against quality competition on a regular basis. I don't know if Reyna was playing this conservatively because it was what Arena told him to do or if that is the only way he can play. I think a little of both. So, if I were manager I probably would not have started Armas as he really was a weak link for possession (Chris I love watching you play and you are a big hero to me - but that's the way I feel - please try to prove me wrong) and I might not have started Reyna either. I don't like to talk about 2006 because there is still the "little" matter of qualification but I hope that Arena doesn't get so fixated on getting a quality player and captain like Reyna on the field that he overlooks that there might exist better options. It should also be said that it wasn't a typical diamond midfield with Reyna as the traditional attacking center mid. (Arena always says he is a two-way midfielder) but we were playing a very "loose" formation with Reyna and Convey trying to get involved in springing the forwards for a counter attack and unlocking defenses with penetrating passes. I think neither Reyna nor Convey did exceptionally well at this. I hesitate to give lineups because I don't feel like there exists one perfect lineup or game plan for every opponent, but if I were manager and Pope got sick before the game and DMB got banged up in practice and JOB couldn't go and I really wanted to try and win I might have: Timmy start. I think he starts the offense from the back better than Keller I also think he punts/throws better. 3 man back line? only if JOB and Reyna can play holding midfielders together in front of them. Maybe Reyna and Convey but I can't count on Convey to get stuck in like JOB. Or I might have called up Mastroeni to pair up with Reyna in front or 3 defenders - but you know that Mastro is not really what I call "in form" lately. So, let's go with the 4 defenders except start Steve over Hedjuk as Cherundolo faces these kind of wingers all the time in Bundesliga (btw he gets burned often, too). 4-2-2-1-1 midfield : of Reyna, Convey 2 - way midfielders. DMB and Donovan as the 2 offensive wide midfielders (like Zidane and Figo for Madrid often drifting to the same side) these do have defensive responsibility. And Mathis drop forward and McBride all the way up with Wolff subbing in at half-time. If DMB is really hurting because of his ribs I would bring in Lewis for him maybe Klein and see if either of them could be comfortable roaming from side-to-side. But, Arena has only the personnel that he is given and he may feel that some styles of play are out of some player's abilities. And there may be internal politics and egos that he is juggling and that can seriously effect tactics and lineups. so, he hold spractice with them and knows what their limitations are - I just feel like so much of our dream line-ups or ideas depend on the situation (form, opponent, importance of game vs trying something new).
When was the last time you saw Convey switch the direction of play, or control the flow of the attack? Until he picks up such skill (which does take time), I'll be uneasy to see him directing our attack. His offensive runs are often very good, but an attacking mid needs to do more than just that.
I will give you that. That is a fair observation. BUT I don't remember Reyna being the person to ignite any of our attacks out of the midfield with any of his linking passes. Most of our most dangerous attacks were from balls played long out of the back to a wide midfielder or up top. Perhaps our attacking game plan was to not play through the middle where Edgar Davids could reek havic. He is a world-class player. I just don't think Reyna is the player everyone thinks he is. If he was, we would see his mark put on more games. I rate a John O'Brian more than I rate Claudio Reyna. I think O'Brian has some genius, some inventiveness when he plays in the middle. I just don't see that from Claudio. He is entirely too methodical. A personal opinion, of course.
I do not disagree with that assesment. My point it that Mathis should be running it (many of past post in the last 2 days will show this) while Convey should gradually get some time here and there. But, I think Convey will have his time - in the WC 2010 qualifications.