the return of hooliganism?

I do that all the time for the Sunderland - Newcastle Derby on wearside.

Some of my friends have season tickets for sunderland and they get offerd tickets for there friends. We always accept and there is normaly a few Newcastle sections in the sunderland area. I have never seen any trouble must just be a Birmingham thing.

 

NEWSFLASH
Hooliganism never went away, it just changed its nature to meet tougher policing.

If people want to fight each other there is little we, society, can do about it. I say, do what the Dutch have done with drugs. Legalise Hoolinganism, build a space near the ground, surronded by 50 ft high fences, with an ample supply of rocks, bottles and lumps of wood, and let those who wish to fight beat the shit out each other in a safe enviorment. You could sell tickets, generating extra cash for hard up clubs.

 

Hooliganism never went away. In some countries hooliganism has gotten to be very big over the last few years. In other countries it's been relatively quitover the past few years. It goes up and down but won't just dissapear.

 

This was a common thing in my day.
I remember once in the North Stand at the bridge when we played the Hammers an incident that was not all that unusual at times.
Apparently some of the Pikeys lot had split into twos and threes and mingled into the home supporters...as opposed to the away section allocated for the visiting team...at the precise moment the ref blew the whistle for kick off these small groups just started belting everyone and anyone around them.For about 10 to 15 seconds they actually cleared back a stuned crowd.Now, obviously these nutters knew they were going to get a right good fucking from us when people realised what had happened and the momentary surprise was overcome.They did.But that was the point of it all.Eventually the coppers drug them down to the pitch side and out thru the track, blood pouring from them.Must have been a good dozen of them or more.Chants of LOY-AL SUPPORTERS greeted them as they were carted away.
Some of the hard core Chelsea lot used to pull this stunt as well.


Not a good sign to see that it is happening again.

 

I equate this problem to our street gangs.There is no real legitimate reason to be so damn stupid but they still do it anyway.(gangbangers/hooligans)

What is the point of being such a stupid ass?And why aren't they kept out of matches for life?

 

Because it's not that easy.

And I wouldn't really equate hooligan gangs to US streetgangs as hooligan gangs are made up of quite diverse groups of people who usually attract other people that are not really IN but wil participate in hooligan activity when they are near to it.

Then there is a small problem with laws saying that you are innocent until proven guilty, although the Dutch FA maintains stadiumbans for people who were found not guilty in court. Of course this is not lawful but in the great battle against hooliganism many things aren't right and many many many forms of unwanted behaviour are thrown onto one big pile we call hooliganism. That's not right either.

In general I think there's no problem when stuff hits off outside the stadium or in other places where normal fans don't walk around en masse.
As if you can stop it... it might decrease, but only for so long.

Then there's dumb police who do not seem to know what they are doing or should be doing. Instead of looking for reasons to go in with batons (what business would a line of riot police have in a very very very full Ajax end in Utrecht or Groningen when there is nothing going on?) they should focus on their order-preserving task meaning that it is sometimes better NOT to do anything but contain trouble to a certain area. This works more de-escalating than driving their vans into groups of people (sometimes hitting people) to spread out the groups. Logically this leads to more violence, directed towards the police.

All in all... hooliganism and football go hand in hand. Maybe they shouldn't but they do, just about everywhere the game is played.

 

I've been to a few games in Holland and the weird thing I found was that when people found I was English they always started talking about crowd trouble at their games. Whether that was because that was what interested them, or they assumed being English it would be or interest to me, I'm not sure. The hooligan culture doesn't seem to be frowned upon there though, it's sort of like how England was in the late 70s/early 80s. Even a fanzine at NEC Nijmegen seemed to glorify violence, with cartoons of Vitesse Arnhem fans running in fear from NEC fans.
Certain in England, Heysel in 85 changed opinions overnight. Violence went from being seen as a rebellious youth thing to being seen for what it really is. There was a shift in attitudes and after declining for years, crowds have risen ever since (not just since the creation of the premier league as some seem to believe).
Maybe the younger fans of today, growing up without the images of Heysel in their minds have a different view. Despite what people claim about hooliganism being back, English football is played at stadia without fences or moats around the pitch, and you don't see on the pitch fighting like you used to get in the old days.

 

Hooligans are frowned upon more than child molesters or drugdealers in Holland these days. Especially by people who have no idea what they are talking about.

My opinion is very simple. I have no trouble with it and am always game for some rumbling. I have been involved in trouble on quite some occasions but I do have certain limits to what I think is acceptable (ofcourse many people do not share my opninion).

But when I was involved and I heared people talk about those incidents in anger or (worse) in tears... I felt ashamed.

These days there are still matches that are important rumble wise, and I won't hesitate to use violence against certain groups of people on those days (these people are up for it too, so why not?). But no police (as long as they treat me normally when I act normally), no property and never ever ever normal fans who want nothing of it. Only the ones that would try and take me/us too.

Call me a bad person, but it is a certain feeling of obligation and pride that I can't just put aside if want to. And I believe this goes for a lot of people involved in these activities. Some are plain ba-a-a-a-aaaad to the bone. Some are not.

 

sa-a-a-a-aaaad to the bone is nearer the mark. For all the holigans' often repeated claims they the only fight those who also want to fight, groups of 10 or 20 trying to pick off one or two easy targets is the more usual scenario.

 

Haven't seen much of that. Haven't seen any of that actually. Once on TV at a Zwolle game. My blood was boiling with anger.

Sure, these sad ************s are around. I'm not one of them. Never will be too.

"Do unto others as you would unto you" is the saying I believe.

 

I can't believe this statement. Ever been in an underground station when a fight has kicked off all around you? Even if you've got nothing to do with it, there's no way out and you're very likely to be carted off to the police station anyway, just for being there. I remember walking back to our car after a game at Highbury when a load of Middlesbrough fans and some of our lot started fighting on the main road (The A1, one of the main routes into London). They were charged by police on horseback, not a pretty sight. It shook up my friend's girlfriend who came to the game with us.

I don't pretend to understand what makes these morons fight, so I have no solution. You're not going to cure hooliganism by more policing, stadium bans etc. I've seen documentaries where hooligans say they're not even bothered about going to games, merely going for the fight. If they get into the game afterwards, that's just a bonus. Until attitudes change where people don't want to fight at or around football matches it will never go away.

 

Somehow? We simply went on ticketmaster.co.uk and bought them (I was in north upper). The reason it didn't kick off was probably due to just how many Albion fans were in there (it looked like hundreds rather than tens). Two months earlier a Brum fan celebrated his teams goal in the East Stand with the Albion fans and got a right twatting. Some Villa fans behind me were trying to get some Albion fans thrown out, the stewards response was 'I didn't sell the tickets'.

 

We don't have fights in underground subway stations so no... never been there. Who knows, we'll be visiting Highbury in a few months

But like I said. Most people don't share my opinion and that's fine. Never said it was a good one.