The Red Baron: Josh Sargent at Norwich City

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by Dave Marino-Nachison, Oct 11, 2016.

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  1. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member+

    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    See my post above. He was in position twice in 30 seconds UNCOVERED and his teammates don't get him the ball. It would be nice if he got more than one chance a game to shoot.
     
  2. dougtee

    dougtee Member+

    Feb 7, 2007
    he is snakebit. a 2v1 where he is running free gets horribly botched then the ensuing 3v2 he makes a great run to pull the defender and open up space for his teammate to bury the cross that falls behind josh.
     
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  3. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member+

    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Another workman's like shift for Sargent. But man o man.... he gets no love WRT to goal scoring passes. They are certainly a better team with him on the pitch.
     
  4. bittercask

    bittercask Member

    Dec 25, 2020
    the better players in his position tend to find a way, and make themselves more a more integral part of the game if they 'aren't getting service.' right now there is only excuses, and he has yet to do much with the opportunities that have come.

    but he's still young. who knows what the future holds. maybe this is his ceiling, and maybe his service is what is holding him back.
     
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  5. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m sure he’d be doing better with better service but he’s not really a pure striker. I think that’s what we are seeing.
     
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  6. twoolley

    twoolley Member+

    Jan 3, 2008
    I think he has the yips
     
  7. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It’s definitely a confidence thing too... when a striker goes this long without scoring, there’s a part of him that is unconsciously averse to scoring. You can tell by sensing that he has a bit of self-doubt in the final third.
     
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  8. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    So he's this generation's Emile Heskey?
     
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  9. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Last season, only one player with fewer minutes equaled or surpassed Sargent's goal tally. This season, the number is 7.
     
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  10. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member+

    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He had a single shot on goal.... and it was a very good strike. Keeper just made a good save. He was WIDE open twice towards the end of the game in the 18 and both crosses from the right side missed him.... and they were relatively easy passes to make. I would say it was in his head if he was shanking chances but he gets about one chance a game. Kind of hard to get on a roll with that few chances. He is still working hard and doing well with holdup play and flick-ons... but you can't will your wingers/midfielders to give you a decent ball to hammer home. You just have to keep making runs and hope you make the most of the chance (singular on purpose) you get.
     
  11. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Noand no. You can’t judge a forward on his goal tally when he gets no service ever. Nuance is needed here and it’s worth noting that never getting service in live games also tends to negatively impact your finishing in those moments because you develop rustiness from lack of repetition in live games which can lead to a negative feedback loop in terms of confidence in front of the net.

    A bunch of things can be happening here and none of them involve being found out either by Jozy years and years ago w/trash teams or Sargent now and just as w/those Hull & Sunderland teamsback then, and Werder Bremen now, nobody is notching a pile of goals.

    I’m exasperated as well, but I watched enough games where Sargent or Altidore had service to know where to place the blame. My chief concern is his confidence draining away due to playing in such a dire situation as Jozy’s did and developing bad habits from a lack of opportunities in front of the net.
     
  12. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    This is the umpteenth reminder why paying close attention to where players transfer or loan to is so critical. Sargent was getting offers from numerous quality sides and he chose a worse case scenario side in Werder Bremen. Was it loyalty? I can’t remember why he chose them but in retrospect it was a terrible decision (and it’s also why I’m so happy w/where McKenzie and Aaronson went in contradistinction). Not sure about Juve, Roma and others re: Reynolds but at least they are quality sides.
     
  13. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would agree with your assessment if he was getting chances to score and botch them but that is not the case. He puts himself in good positions but the service is usually bad. In the air, he keeps the ball alive if he doesn't have a chance on goal.
    HIs problem is that he is asked to help out the weak midfield and because of this he is usually in a bad position for the final pass that most of the time is bad.
    He does a lot of work that is not in the stats sheet.
     
  14. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Other players in the team have been scoring equal or more goals despite having few minutes. That wasn't the case last season.
     
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  15. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    it’s worth noting that if Sarge had Harit sending balls like he sent Hope balls last week he’d have a helluvalot more goals, period. That’s precisely what’s been missing since he broke through into Bremen’s 11. Quality service. Even borderline semi-competent service. It’s just not there and you can score goals w/o a reasonable amount of chances and Sargent has to manufacture them himself or they rarely come at all.
     
  16. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Chances matter.
     
  17. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Others on Bremen are taking advantage of their chances.

    Hoppe is the leading goal scorer on Schalke 04, so it's not remotely a given that Sargent would be banging in 'em in if he were there.
     
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  18. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    This is the thing. I think both sides of the argument are justified, I get people who are just over it, ready to move on to other options because he's repeating Jozy's house of horrors tour of the EPL's resident dumpster fire midfields at Hull and Sunderland and maybe he just sucks.

    I get it, scoreboard, to paraphrase Parcell's nonsense take about records, but nuance is relevant, and I think the best way to look at it is to note:

    #1 the paucity of goals are alarming and a bad sign.
    #2 the situation is dumpster fire level and few could provide a substantial goal tally playing in a similar situation.

    You can't score on chances you never got.

    I think both takes are justifiable, I just am buying Sargent long term ESPECIALLY if he can get out of Werder Bremen.
     
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  19. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The difference with Jozy is Jozy had a few sitters he missed while playing in the PL.
     
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  20. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Sargent at Werder is younger than Jozy at Sunderland. Jozy had been a mid-career player and a gigantic purchase for Sunderland. Sargent is still very much ahead of the curve with respect to his age.
     
  21. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    So, we compare him to when Jozy returned to Villareal short of turning 21 which Sargent will be next month.
     
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  22. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Honestly, this is one of the things I do NOT like about promotion/relegation...

    We talk about what league is better, but the truth is that these clubs and league are just structured differently. When a player is playing for these bottom feeders, their whole mentality is on survival, not learning how to high press, and play direct and with swagger. For example, Josh Sargent has learned how to be a better team-player, rounding out his game, but at the cost of honing his craft as a lethal goal scorer. Personally, I’m a little worried about his confidence to score when it counts in CONCACAF, as a result.

    Meanwhile, we could look at a defender in the same way. For example, Chris Richards is playing for arguably the best team in the world, but for a defender, he’s never going to experience being under the high press. All the teams are going to back off when they’re playing Bayern Munich, and Richards is going to adapt to that environment. What that might mean is that his distribution game will improve but his focus and concentration might stall.

    Now, does that mean I don’t want our players playing in the most competitive environment possible? Or somehow I’m arguing that MLS is superior to the Bundesliga? Of course not. But it is worth noting that it’s not just a matter of -
    Is player A better than player B because he plays for this or that club. Not necessarily so. Sometimes that player just fits what that club needs, and once that player is there he adjusts his game to what’s expected of him. And we should be keen to when players start to develop imbalances in their game.
     
  23. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Not saying he would, saying if he got chances like Harit gave Hoppe last week he would, and he would. Sargent's goal this year is precisely off that kind of chance that freed Sargent for a one v one with the keeper and it's the sort that he rarely ever gets at Bremen.
     
  24. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Yep, but that happens when you lose your confident when you play game after game with crumbs for chances. Everyone should know that live action and training are different and repetition is relevant for both, and if you don't get repetition in terms of chances in front of the goal, you're going to get rusty and potentially neurotic considering your mental make up and temperament. It's only natural for a player who isn't scoring and is rarely scoring to develop the yips/anxiety when suddenly the chance is thrust upon them. Sargent hasn't really had those, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did.

    Happened to Forlan at ManU, only to turn around and be a ridiculous striker after leaving ManU (granted he did have service there).
     
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  25. Shaster

    Shaster Member+

    Apr 13, 1999
    El Cerrito, CA, USA
    Sargent is fine in this game. Even thought he didn’t score but his runs contributed on scoring. Just need to work hard, bitting bullets, and again does some rituals to break the curse. Like kissing his boots before games. lOL
     
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