The Red Baron: Josh Sargent at Norwich City

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by Dave Marino-Nachison, Oct 11, 2016.

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  1. DIMITAR BERBATOV!

    Aug 2, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's never been as bad as some people thought. One thing I've learned from watching a lot of sports the last 10-15 years: Never underestimate how reactionary fans can be. If you aren't a legend, you're only as good as your last game.

    Hard to think of a USA player outside Donovan and Dempsey who wasn't dragged over the coals by the fan base at some point. Josh is unfortunate to be matriculating in an era when the USA has real depth and talent, in terms of at least being guaranteed selection. Had he come along in 2013, we'd be capping him at every opportunity by default.

    Those spots are precious now. It's as much about form as ability. I don't know that there's any gap between him and the likes of Pepi, Morris, and Aaronson. He's just not the trendy pick with the staff at the moment, and not so gifted like Pulisic or Dest that he's going to be automatic even if out of form. It's going to be a dog fight to get on this WC team for a lot of players. Not enough spots to accommodate everyone capable of contributing, which is a new problem for the USA to have.
     
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  2. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here comes those trying to rewrite history. There's been nothing reactionary. He's had 2.5 poor seasons. You are actually the "reactionary" one when you try and rewrite what's happened over the last few seasons based on a single game.
     
  3. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Every time I watch Sarge play he looks good, except in front of goal. And today he looked good in front of goal.
     
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  4. golazo68

    golazo68 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 21, 2004
    Brazil
    Oh brother.

    He was playing as a striker at an offensively-challenged team (in the 3rd best league in the world at time) at 18-21 years old.

    It is virtually impossible to find comps for that, because it hardly exists. (at that age). And the ones that one does find says it did ok all things considered.

    I’m not excusing at all his lack of production this season to date- but how about a moritorium on negativity for a couple days on the kid. He earned it.

    A question: do you value all goals the same? I don’t- because scoring a late goal in a game you can hardly win (or some other examples) de-value goals.

    But these goals today were monster valuable. And he had a lot of work to do on both- these were no tap ins.

    This should factor into anyone’s assessment as well. He (basically) and literally one the 3 points for them (against a relegation rival).

    He paid back a little of that fee today (and also demonstrated there is something ‘there there) for player value.

    Time will tell us the rest and still another month to add to his ‘age 21’ goal and assist totals :)

     
  5. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Honestly dude all your posts like this are TLDR.
     
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  6. Shaster

    Shaster Member+

    Apr 13, 1999
    El Cerrito, CA, USA
    He has a good pass to Rashide who fail to finish.
     
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  7. golazo68

    golazo68 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 21, 2004
    Brazil
    Because it is a fact.

    Outside Mbappe and Haaland- name me all these 18 and 19 and 20 years old scoring lots of goals in England, Spain and Germany. You can even go back a few years.

    You won’t do it because they hardly exist and you know it.

    I think you are right to ‘critique’ parts of Josh’s game- but sometimes you pick the wrong arguments. This particular one is one example (‘he was poor for 2.5 seasons with no context added at all’)
     
  8. golazo68

    golazo68 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 21, 2004
    Brazil
    Since the start of November Norwich have won as many PL games as Chelsea
     
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  9. DIMITAR BERBATOV!

    Aug 2, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Josh had been truly poor at Bremen, Norwich wouldn't have gone in for him. Context is crucial when you try to assess performance. Playing on bad teams generally equates to less possession and fewer goals by default. It's not always indicative of the player's overall level. Just look at people like Tadic and Haller. "Failures" in the EPL on bad teams. Then they go to Ajax where their side dominates the ball and suddenly they run the show.

    Some fans are unable to separate performance from stats. You can play a great game and not get on the score sheet as an attacker. Likewise, a goalie can play a brilliant game and still concede 3 goals. What scouts try to do is isolate the player's quality independent of the context, and obviously Norwich saw plenty to like in Sargent.
     
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  10. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Sarge is far from our least-loved-by-the-club-fans Yank Abroad.

    Dest, Adams, and Pulisic score a lot higher in that regard.
     
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  11. Pl@ymaker

    Pl@ymaker Member+

    Feb 8, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    H'es going to be a beast, when he's 25.
     
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  12. DMTerp02

    DMTerp02 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Annapolis, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm just beyond words happy for the kid. He's been pretty good IMO in the last month or two but it's all relative as the "striker who doesn't score" reputation sinks in. He's still young and his finishing seems always about his confidence more than technique and positioning.

    You still want to see more, and demand more from guys who are fighting for WC spots. But he's 21, pretty much starting every week in the Premier League, and we still don't really have a striker in the US pool that's run away with the job, or proven themselves in any way. So let's not forget about Gritty.

    He now has more Prem goals than Jadon Sancho. The Premier League is hard.
     
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  13. m vann

    m vann Moderator
    Staff Member

    Colorado Rapids, Celtic FC, & Louisville City
    Sep 10, 2002
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If there was a guy that need a goal or two, it was Sargent. He’s been a punching bag and easy target for a lot of folks this season. A brace and being instrumental in a huge 3 points for Norwich will provide some temporary relief for him. Hopefully this ignites a good run of form. The guy could use a change of fortunes. Very happy for him today.
     
  14. twoolley

    twoolley Member+

    Jan 3, 2008
    I’m stoked for him! Can we all agree there? Fire up!
     
  15. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT
    Imagined that!
     
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  16. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT
    Extremely happy for Sarge.

    Didn't watch the game but saw the extended highlights. These weren't easy goals, the first one was almost freaky'ish.
     
  17. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    The bad part has been your characterizations of Sargent as slow and "shrimpy," though.

    Today, he showed an elite level of physicality. He bossed the right side of the field for much of the first half showing his good speed and very good strength. His touch was sharp and in good rhythm with the game. His decision making was very good.

    Every commenter on this page acknowledges that he has been flat out poor in front of goal. That's not the point. The point is that he has some pretty obvious potentially elite qualities that mean he still has a tremendous amount of upside left in his career. After 70 games in the Bundesliga, he now has 20 in the PL, and he's still just 21.

    Today might have been a coming out party.... a Friday performance in a relegation fight like this will garner a lot of attention.
     
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  18. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Great stuff here. Tears and silence from the goofy lunatics who take some sort of bizarre delight in watching a 21 year old kid fail, as the desire to "be right" is oh so much sweeter than just letting a kid develop in his career.

    Great stuff from the goofy lunatics who said Norwich would challenge Derby's record for futility. Hawt take city in this day and age.

    Great stuff from Sargent too. Now the 2nd leading scorer on Norwich right? I've been disappointed with his return so far this season, but I keep going back to the fact the kid is always starting, no matter the manager or the club. He's doing something right that makes him invaluable to these teams. The counter from the goofy lunatics is "yeah, invaluable to terrible teams", which is fair more or less, but it's still something to build on. I keep thinking "dang, he still won't score, he'll be dropped at some point if for nothing else than a break for 4 or 5 games to clear his head", but he simply always seems to earn a starting nod.

    That's really good, and if he gets to 4-6 goals this season, especially after the start he had, we're looking at a pretty good season.

    Not the place for it, but he should be with the US team.
     
  19. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Donovan? You weren't paying attention, I guess. There are plenty of Europhiles who are instantly getting trigerred by his name even now.
     
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  20. felloveranddidanadu

    Plymouth Argyle FC
    Dec 12, 2009
    Club:
    San Jose Frogs
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I honestly feel like I'm taking crazy pills watching this. Everyone kept saying he needed a break, he needed some luck, and holy hell he got both and them some with this finish. His goalscoring career cannot afford another drought like he just had. Here's to hoping for many more from the kid,
     
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  21. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Nobody has mentioned it, but I liked the celebration after the 2nd goal, you could see the Norwich RB (Aarons I believe) motioning to the fans while congratulating Sargent. Seemed to be giving it to them a bit, possibly because of the previous match booing/getting on Sarge for a lack of production. So that was nice to see, at least his team seems behind him.
     
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  22. theboogeyman

    theboogeyman Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Sorry man, but simply playing at a young team doesn’t mean much when you aren’t producing and your team sucks. Do you really think he’s anywhere close to Haaland or Dembele in terms of talent? If so, why? And if not, why bring them up? Plenty of guys like Bojan Krkic, jordon ibe, and Freddy adu got time when they were young before eventually proving that they weren’t as good as the hype.

    I like Sargent, and he could still become a solid premier league attacker, but thus far he’s been an average player for bad teams.I hope he takes a step up, but he needs to because he’s quite clearly a cut below Pepi right now.
     
  23. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sargent is a very hardworking player, both in attack and defense. He just hasn't had the quality in front of goal. I hope this game is the turning point for him. Before today's game, I could understand why he was not called up. Now he's giving GGG something to think about. Keep it up!
     
  24. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    The focus was certainly on Sargent after he scored his first and second Premier League goals to fire City to a vital victory.

    And Dean was delighted for his American international: “I’m really pleased for him. It endears him to the supporters, they were singing his name.

    “It’s been coming, he’s not playing in probably his favoured position. But his work ethic is tremendous and his physicality helps us.

    “We’ve sacrificed a man in midfield at the moment because we feel it’s worth it. In other games we might have to change that.

    “But delighted for Sarge. He had a newborn the other week so I’m sure he’ll dedicate the goals to his family


    https://www.canaries.co.uk/content/dean-smith-great-bit-of-improvisation-from-sarge
     
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  25. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Where did he say Sargent is close to Haaland or Dembele? You simply just made that up because you saw the 3 names in the same paragraph.

    He said no young striker scores at a high rate in Europe's top leagues except those guys. Thus, since Sargent doesn't score, they aren't comparable. Sargent is comparable to the number of other young strikers in top leagues who don't score much.

    The point is young players don't really score all that much. Because we (US fans) have such a rich load of talented players now, and are in such a hawt take society, Sargent not scoring many goals means he's a failure. He's fine, he had a tough first few months in the EPL, has managed to keep starting matches, and seems to be coming into form the last few weeks. If he gets 4-6 goals on the season, it's a success.

    He now has matched Jozy's EPL goal total in less than half the matches, for a team that has scored the least # of goals in the EPL, and are not even that close to #s 18/19.

    He's doing well. His career remains on a decent trajectory, despite what some of the debbies will have you believe here. Hopefully Norwich can carry on with some decent form, as it'd be nice to see them stay up. And it'll certainly be more fun to follow that end of the table than CP and Chelsea at the top, where the race is over.

    Also...I am convinced I have an effect on Sargent's production. I try to catch most of the games, and always am disappointed. Then I miss the cup match, when he scores 2, and miss last nights...I think I'm going to stop watching and see if he becomes the EPL's leading scorer.
     
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