OK, so you were disappointed when, at 20/21 years of age.....Josh did not score (what, 8-10?) goals for Bremen playing in the Bundesliga? Do you have any understanding, whatsoever, how incredibly rare a feat that is? Your expectations were simply out of whack. It is extremely, extremely rare for any forward at 21 from any country in the world to score 8-10 goals in the Bundesliga at 20/21 years old. Especially factor in that his side were in the bottom tier of the league. Look it up- the few strikers who accomplish this are almost always older, much older. This is data, this is facts. You certainly do have a right to be disappointed this season... because in the first 1/3 of the season, Josh is underperforming. He is snatching at shots and not in a good flow. But it is only 1/3 of season, and again, he is still 21. It still can not be stressed enough that we can not compare a player who is 21 with players who are 24-25 years old (and more). 21 year old players have more time and more upside left. (in a good number of cases). More time to correct technical flaws as well. Just like Norwich picked up 7 points in 3 games (when they were appearing dead in the water), Josh's fortunes can turn around quickly after that first goal, that first confidence boost. Nothing for certain, but odds still favor this.
still I’m not sure there’s a direct line to say that succeeding in the second division will mean MLS success. Haven’t lots of championship type players failed in MLS over the years? I think it’s definitely jumping to conclusions to say that Sargent would star in MLS.
That's approximately how I see it as well. Having said that, the difference in performance since hiring a new manager has been stark. They looked hopeless under previous management and now they look like a contender (to stay up).
Just like looking awesome in a weak league doesn't mean you'd do well in a strong one, looking weak in a strong league doesn't mean you'd do any better in a weak one. For all we know, Sarge could look like a lost potato in MLS too.
Bobby Wood just legit trolling this thread today. lol. (I think it's pretty clear that Sarge's attributes and style would make him a very solid MLS player, if not an out-and-out star. He's kinda built for MLS, esp certain teams.)
Note he’s been dropped from the national team the last two cycles. So perhaps he’s not always valued.
I don't think any 19-21 year olds who have lit up second division teams in Germany and England has failed in MLS? I think you can assume that the likelihood of a player like that not being a star in MLS is even less so when you consider that he brings very good qualities on the defensive side of the ball.
Not sure why 19-21 matters because I never made that age representation. I simply noted that succeeding in the Euro second divisions has been far from a sure thing for succeeding in MLS. Sargent’s overall track record against professional adults is not great. Given the inherent limitations in his game, I don’t see him growing into a significantly better player than Agudelo.
19-21 is extremely important because it shows that we are talking about a player who is at the very beginning of his professional career. Still, he is ALREADY a better player (by far) than Agudelo ever has been. If you seriously think that Sargent still has more to do before living up to the standard that Juan Agudelo has set, then this opinion colors just about every criticism of yours about Josh Sargent basically null, in my opinion. For starters: Stats with US senior team: Agudelo - 28 games, three goals Sargent - 19 games, five goals You think that Agudelo's club resume holds a candle to Sargents? Try arguing that one.... Sargent is fine. This bullshit narrative that he's finished is absolutely ridiculous, and the troll job war path that you are on is one of the most tired things on BS. Maybe he doesn't get to where we all hope that he can, but there really isn't any need to scrutinize to every touch, every weekend while he's 21 years old to tell us that he's shit and won't ever amount to anything.
I disagree--Agudelo had a lot of potential when he was ~18-19 and there were quite a few clubs taking a look at him. He lost a lot of momentum and I imagine some motivation when he failed to procure a work permit with Stoke City. I should clarify that I think MLS is a quality league, and when I reference Europe, I mean more so the top 5 leagues. I can see Josh being serviceable in the Scandinavian leagues, 2. Bundesliga, etc. Time will tell if he'll make it, but as a random guy from the internet I've seen enough from his time at Werder Bremen and Norwich City that leads me to believe that he just isn't good enough. This isn't a trolling statement or hate for Josh--I felt the same for Eddie Johnson and Jozy Altidore at similar junctures. In that same light, I also thought that Junior Flores was going to be a great player. Sometimes players work out, sometimes they don't.
Sargent has already been serviceable in the Bundesliga and EPL at 19-21 years old, but you think that his actual level is serviceable in Scandinavia or German second division. Agudelo might have had promise based on some flashes that he showed, but he never performed at a level close to what Sargent has as a very young player. Listen, I get that Sargent isn't scoring at a good rate and that he has looked downright shaky in front of net, but he has also shown a lot of positive stuff for a young player at very high levels, and, frankly, his performances are generally nowhere near as bad as they are presented on here. He is not quite living up to the hype, but he's way ahead of Agudelo and Scandinavia levels....
Juan Agudelo as Sarge's ceiling?!?! You must be fcuking joking. Sarge already out-achieved Agudelo 18 months ago (28 BL1 games with 4 goals and 4 assists in a season at 20 beats 14 Eredivisie games with 3 goals and 3 assists in a half-season at 20) for the simple reason that Sarge is a serious pro, determined to maximize his talent. Agudelo is a phoning-it-in player: the guy who's realized that if he plays within himself he'll still pull circa $500k a year and might get a few caps and, maybe, a runners-up medal somewhere and decided "why bother?" Deuce is the ceiling to set for Sarge: not the greatest of talents but a star and a leader for a stable mid-table Top 5 league side because of his courage, determination and soccer IQ. An MNT mainstay to boot
You had me til Deuce. I think McBride is his ceiling but that will require a big improvement in finishing.
Look at post #10188. Didn't quote it because other posters are expressing similar sentiments. I'd agree that his ceiling is a mid table stalwart.
As I said before, Josh’s greatest sin is simply not becoming the high end goal scoring forward, at prodigy levels, that desperate fans want. He looked like he could be the answer, and that is almost worse than showing no promise when dealing with the mob. Out of whack emotional expectations. He does a lot things it seems his coaches in Europe value. Yeah, the offensive end is just downright ugly right now. A couple really embarrassing moments to boot. No way around it, at all.
He’s 22 years old in less than two months and he has not significant improved since he turned 18. His trajectory is not upward. And we can scrutinize anything we want here. That’s the point of the thread. When a player is struggling, that will be the topic. Also I never said he was “finished,” whatever that means. I even agreed he would be marginally better than Agudelo. No reason for you to get so emotional here buddy. If you don’t like the critique, you can block me.
+1 But just to repeat myself, where is the managerial bravery to try him at his natural 6/8 position?
More accurate to say his progress has been uneven, but that is not uncommon for strikers between 18-21. Witness Hoppe. Certainly his hold up play and other professional elements of his play are stronger than when he was 18. So you are wrong there. Relax and enjoy the ride......
Or as good as Connor Casey. I've said it before but he gives the impression he might benefit from a sports psychologist. The terrible shot once he got behind the goalie, the whiff this weekend - it seems like he has something mental going on because he's capable of kicking the ball. I just think Agudelo is a bit of a strange point of comparison as they don't seem all that comparable other than to illustrate a forward that could never quite reach expectations. Sarge already is a more complete player than Agudelo and seems to have the work ethic that Agudelo was rumored to lack - famously disappointing T. Henry for not being that interested in honing his craft. I can imagine Henry was a pain in the ass, but I can't imagine being a young aspiring pro and not doing whatever the heck he told me to improve. It's probably why he got shipped out of New Jersey. That said, it's not like Juan has had a terrible career and no shame in not reaching McBride heights. But I disagree with you if you think he won't keep improving. The knock on McBride for years was that he didn't score but he did all the other little things to help improve his team even though many fans didn't appreciate it.
Yup, those misses cab manifest. Shaster mentioned KDLF’s miss against PSG. Since them he seems to have gotten much more tentative. Young players. It happens. I know it’s not the Nats forum but it also why folks should really appreciate what is going on with the overall youth of that group right now. It really is against the norm. Very impressive.