There is a 3rd possible path for Josh... Becoming a solid mid-table EPL striker producing good goal/assist numbers for a number of years. For the numbers, a 'McBride-Fulham' goals/assists type player. For the timing/club/table, more like Fulham in Dempsey's latter years...those clubs didn't look to relegate, but were not going into the top 4 either- and produced some good seasons from 6-12 (approx) in table for a few years under Roy and early Mark Hughes and the famous Dempsey Roma goal and finals run. Where Josh is different than most past and present American players- he will have a lot of different league options. The path might easily head back to BL Germany at some point, or one could even see him at a PSV Eindhoven type club where the competition is weaker but they punch above the weight in Euro competitions. With Americans owning Italian clubs- maybe Italy as well? All depends how long he wishes to play in Europe. And St. Louis is likely to throw a 'Jozy' type multi-million dollar DP package at him as well- tempting! You are certainly correct that reaching a top 4 EPL club is the lowest odds of the 3 defined career 'levels'. No shame in that since the US has never done that before. Great if he can finally make that breakthrough for us. But we just don't know yet which of these come to fruition. Too early. If he were 24-25 years old, of course we would logically have a different conversation.
Judging a player and assessing their current level is a lot different from projecting that form over their entire career. The idea that Sargent is finished developing is, frankly, really dumb. I have cooled on Sargent over the last year or so as I would like to see him be much better in front of net, so I am not here to claim that he is answer for the national team in qualifying or that he's guaranteed to be a Champions League caliber player. That said, he is still very young and has the tools to become a top player if his finishing comes around to the level that he has shown against lower level teams. His athleticism and skill level are not what is holding him back. Teams that get promoted don't invest 11 million dollars in a player who won't help them in that current season. Are you even sure that there isn't some sort of relegation clause in his contract? Shameless.
As has been said before by others, it is hard to improve when you get one shooting opportunity and ten touches per game. Sargent is a professional, and felt like he had to grab that bag when he could. That's what Feilhaber says now about Derby, even while he recognizes that it might not have been great for his career. Go with the bird in the hand rather than two in the bush. Sargent is now set up with a nice bank account, but as a fan I want to see him develop even if it's riskier from a financial standpoint. I know I'm in the minority on this, but I would have liked to see him spend a season in the BLII turning and dribbling mediocre defenders, and slotting home past mediocre GKs.
I never said he was completely finished developing. However he’s almost certainly not going to make a big leap on athleticism or skill at this point.
Some people here just can’t accept that many of us don’t rate Sargent. According to these posters, every soccer player has infinite potential to be a world class stud until he’s 24 or 25 years old, even if he has huge weaknesses in his game. In no circumstances can you disagree.
Again, though, McBride's EPL numbers were not exceptional in any context except that of a US player. I think you have to footnote his career because he quite possible sacrificed a few good Euro years to become one of the faces of the new MLS, but if you looked at his career absent red-white-and-blue colored glasses, he's a very decent lower EPL/upper other leagues striker. His best seasons were 9 league goals back to back - very decent, but not exceptional (again, though, I think you have to acknowledge McBride going to college and leaving Germany to help launch MLS.)
How in the world did Josh pumpers latch onto Brian McBride's career of all things? There is almost nothing in common between the environment McBride came up in and the one Josh did. Josh has been a pro for almost his entire career and his been training against pros at pro quality facilities abroad. If there is a diamond in that rock, it's certainly been hammered away at. McBride was playing college and low level pro soccer until he was like 24! He was an athletic player that needed more exposure to the pro game speed at higher levels and he was able to keep improving his game rapidly until his late 20s once exposed to better coaching and training. You're comparing apples to oranges trying to draw any conclusions from his career relative to not just Josh but any YA.
Pointing to Josh’s own progress doesn’t help them, so they point to players who retired 15 years ago. Very strange.
Goals scored isn't the principal metric for a target forward, McBride was way more than his numbers and was treated by fans accordingly.
You act as if there are lots of strikers Sargents age playing at the level that he is. It's not even that I have a problem with how you currently rate Sargent. It's more your assertion that you know he will never reach a good level. And how you present that idea like a ass. Always sharing your own tweets here.
Only one poster here has supported his arguments by “bragging” about getting laid in Brazil. And I’m the ass? Lol. I doubt you have a problem when people make positive predictions about a player who is playing well. You should have the same tolerance for negative predictions about a player who has not played well.
McBride had decent production on a per minute basis anyway, unlike Josh. In the EPL the former averaged .65, .56, and .36 g/90. Sargent posted a fraction of his #'s of .25, .18, and 0 early this season. And Josh is an inferior target because of his lack of comparative physicality + poor runs. So McBride was better in the other areas of the game, for a striker. When we praise Sargent, it's for doing wing things - pressing, combining, work-rate, etc. But they'd require more end product eventually at that position as well. It's a reach to wrangle McBride into this because he's American and wasn't as accomplished at this pt in his career. They took very different routes. Not sure how you're supposed to score 4 goals in an entire BL season & be a mediocre target when you chose to matriculate. It would not have been hard to meet or exceed that standard if he got the same opportunity as Josh. The closer analog is clearly Jozy from a career route, opportunity, and per minute production standpoint. Jozy was worse than McBride. Josh could pass both in the end, because he's still young, and can get the confidence back, unlike Jozy. But that's indeed where Josh is at, w/out being the big physical target that Jozy was even. Jozy at Hull was younger and better than Josh's ever been at CF. Morris is more an analog for a McBride. Pepi for a Lewandowski. Pepi's been a success as a teen in his domestic league, ala Lewandowski. We'll see what transpires, but he's on a similar current trajectory. To some extent, failure is just failure, wherever it occurs. We can say for sure a failure in the Polish League could also be a failure in the Bundesliga, if given opportunities. But a success in the Polish League could also be a success in the Bundesliga. They probably wouldn't be, if you picked a player at random. However, figuring which ones will be, is what scouting, and factoring in circumstance, is for. Generally it's better to bet on cherry-picked players who've always been successful than proven failures up until that point, even though some of the latter can prove late bloomers physically, mentally, and skill-wise. They just weren't ready for their initial opportunities.
Been there. But he did not get a bar because he scored 9 goals in two consecutive seasons. He got a bar named after him because he's a leader, charismatic and somewhat talismanic figure on a mediocre team. If every EPL striker who had 2 9 goals seasons got a pub named after them... There's be a lot more pubs with non-English names.
LOL that was Eric Wynaldas tweet. A player who can add insight. Can you offer any insight please? Dude try and imagine Jesus loves all his children and we are all sitting at a bar with respect.
Agree 100% (and said as much in some posts above.) My point is if the "McBride goals" metric is what we judge Jesus' success by, it's not really a "top team performance" level. Sure, if Jesus rises to become as influential a leader on Norwich and they stay in the EPL as long as Fulham and Jesus gets 5 good seasons where he's one of the faces of Norwich - sure, that's a great career. But if he just eeks out 9 goals twice over 7 or 8 seasons while yo-yo-ing between EPL and Champs... it's a little less successful. Context matters.
Apples to oranges. McBride was a #9 target-man type of striker (who had some other weapons in his armoury as well) who was very good in the air. Josh isn't.
Correct. Middling stats overall. But he kept the offense flowing with his holdup play and pounded defenders with his physicality, and pestered on defense. That was valued in addition. All in all, slightly above average forward for an average EPL team to lower rung EPL team. I wonder if those (not you) who question Josh physicality have ever seen him play. He definitely has hops and his speed is pretty good. Not Mbappe good, but still good.
Say what? That's the wrong argument to present. If you want to say Josh needs to be more clinical (with all his chances), hungrier, more aggressive and unorthodox in taking on defenders, ok. Fair critique. Let's see if he can improve. But his ability to win headers and leap + time is really good for a player at such a young age. It is one of his strengths. There is no way that this can be considered anything but great hops and a great header: (second 22): Crazy last minutes | Düsseldorf - Bremen 2-3 | All Goals | Matchday 2 – Bundesliga 2 - 21/22 - YouTube Also, it is unlikely anyone here saw McBride play at 21 years old. You can't compare McBride at 28 to Sargent at 21. We only saw the finished product, honed after thousands of hours on the training ground.....McBride hardly appeared on anyone's radar until he was in his late 20s, early 30s. And for club teams, there wasn't a lot of coverage to see for MLS Nationally or EPL in USA either.