The Red Baron: Josh Sargent at Norwich City

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by Dave Marino-Nachison, Oct 11, 2016.

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  1. Gorky

    Gorky Member+

    Jul 28, 2006
    NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What I find weird is that he first burst onto the scene as a clinical goal scorer with the U20s (or was it U17s?).
     
  2. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    It's really not that weird. He's been clinical in cup matches against 2nd/3rd tier sides and limited B2 appearances. When his team is as good or better than the opposition, he scores quite a bit.

    When his team is worse, he is not scoring very much. Nor are any of his teammates. Norwich has 2 goals in 6 EPL games, 1 was a penalty I think.

    The bigger concern is his USNT performances, but 1. this isn't the thread for that, 2. the NT offense has been just about as bad as Werder/Norwich.
     
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  3. chrome_vapors

    chrome_vapors Member+

    Oct 15, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jesus.
     
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  4. golazo68

    golazo68 Member

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 21, 2004
    Brazil
    PSG's Mauricio Pochettino: Superstar squad under construction, need time to win trophies (espn.com)

    Pochettino needs 'time' for his 3 of the TOP 5 forwards IN THE WORLD in his lineup and a wealth of talent supporting....they need time to 'jell', even though 2 of fantastic forwards played together the last 2 years, and the other is as good a player that has ever existed in football forever......and yet we can't give Sargent some time to learn to combine and grow in confidence with (much more inferior) teammates after less than 3 games played? (counting total minutes)

    And those forwards mentioned above, Messi, Neymar and Mbappe are aged 34, 29 and 23 and have massive experience at top levels. And those guys 'need time'?

    And our boy is 21 1/2 and fresh into his career....and we kneecap him with our criticism on our timeline?

    Seems quite the contrast!

    Hey, if Messi, Neymar and Mbappe need time.....I suppose it is not unrealistic to think our boy might as well.
     
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  5. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    With the limited striker options, we all should be praying (or whatever we atheists are supposed to do) for Sarge to do well.
     
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  6. Jumbalaya

    Jumbalaya Member+

    Apr 27, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Sunderland AFC
    [​IMG]


    On a side note Josh needs to be more assertive and start taking chances because his Norwich comrades don't appear capable of the kind of service he may have been expecting.
     
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  7. run_it_out

    run_it_out Member

    Earthquakes
    United States
    Jun 19, 2018
    Boy howdy, when this Norwich team gels, look out. I can't wait until Sargent settles in and starts banging them in just like he did back in... <checks wikipedia> 2018-19 in Regionalliga Nord.
     
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  8. golazo68

    golazo68 Member

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 21, 2004
    Brazil
    Hate to disappoint you, but if you are playing striker for any bottom 10 club in any
    of the top 4 leagues- a run rate of 1 goal every 4 games (or 8 or 9 over a course of a season) is a good rate. But most of those goal scorers take penalties, so if you eliminate them (assuming Josh doesn't take them), 6-7 (run of play) goals for someone like Josh is a good rate. Starting now (excluding his transition period and assuming no major injuries), that translates to 5-6 goals rest of season overall as a target for Josh.

    Those are just the facts of life if you are playing striker in the top 4 leagues in the world, but at a bottom 10 club.

    Do we need to get into how many 21 year old strikers in top 4 leagues and bottom 10 clubs do (and have done), because the numbers I stated INCLUDE veteran strikers (25-32 years old) from whom you would expect more, naturally. For 21 year old strikers, you even discount from the figures I listed.

    Expectations out-of-whack on this thread. If you want to create some fantasyland
    where 21 year old strikers at bottom 10 clubs bang in lots of goals- go ahead and look for your unicorn.

    Even Mbappe was at a strong (not bottom 10 League 1) Monaco side, etc.
     
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  9. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    I don't think giving him a Latin name will increase his scoring or value.... sadly.
     
  10. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    I'm pretty sure neither our criticism nor our timeline will substantively affect Jesus Sargent in any way whatsoever.

    I'm pretty sure he doesn't give an ounce of rotting herring and stale challa what we post here (at least I sure hope he don't!)
     
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  11. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Relegated clubs last season:


    Fulham Strikers:

    Mitrovic 3 goals, 3 assists in 27 games
    Maja 3 goals in 15 games
    Aboubakar no goals, no assists in 309'


    West Bromwich:
    Grant 1 goal in 21 games
    Callum Robinson 5 goals in 28 games
    Diagné 3 goals, 2 assists in 16 games


    Sheffield:
    Rhian Brewster no goals, no assists in 27 games
    McBurnie 1 goal, 1 assist in 23 games
    Mousset no goals, no assists in 289'


    At this point Norwich is closer to Sheffield than to the other two.

    We shouldn't expect more than 2 or 3 goals for Sarge this season.
     
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  12. golazo68

    golazo68 Member

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 21, 2004
    Brazil
    Thanks for the context, thanks for the data! :thumbsup:
     
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  13. adi21

    adi21 Member

    The ones that have Americans starting
    United States
    Mar 17, 2001
    D.C. area
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    what are you trying to do here with your logic and facts ? Trolls are hard to convince.
     
  14. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dude, we get it. It’s way too soon to define the limits of Josh’s career. You’ve made your point.
     
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  15. DIMITAR BERBATOV!

    Aug 2, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This reminds me so much of Jozy and some of the talk with him at Sunderland/USMNT. It was much the same phenomenon. The context is so important.

    It has me thinking that the next guy who has the opportunity to join a small club in their dream league or a big team in a slightly smaller league should really make some serious quality of life calculations. I'd rather be the man at Ajax, bombing Utrecht and Hereneveen into oblivion, than go to Burnley and live or die on the one decent touch I will get all day.

    To be fair, Bremen have a pretty good history and were worse than you would've realistically expected, independent of Josh's role. Signing there was probably smarter than going the huge team route, but just didn't come off.
     
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  16. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why is that weird? I know plenty of people who are skilled at a sport before they play at the highest level. Then they aren’t so good when the competition increases. For every Lewa, there are 100s of Gedion Zelalem or Julian Green.

    You should also be careful about overweighting youth tournament play. Yes, Sargent scored a few nice goals against youth teams of Senegal, Ecuador, and New Zealand. But how many of those opposing players made it in the EPL or another top 5 league? Very few I imagine.
     
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  17. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes because relegated teams typically don’t have good attackers. You have the causal relationship reversed.
     
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  18. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yet for the national team he’s also crap.
     
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  19. twoolley

    twoolley Member+

    Jan 3, 2008
    Not sure he gave a causal reasoning. Just laid out facts which were that josh will likely score very few goals this year.
     
  20. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Mitrovic is Serbia's all time leading scorer, I believe.

    Some seem to have this absurd idea that there is some kind of hard line between an "EPL striker" and a "Champs" or "MLS" striker, when the reality is it's generally situational. It takes an exceptional striker to get Pukki number goals on a Norwich level team. And if you can do it a couple of seasons in a row... you're not going to be on a Norwich level team much longer.
     
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  21. madvillain

    madvillain Member+

    Aug 28, 2011
    Club:
    Brooklyn Knights
    #9596 madvillain, Sep 27, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021
    people can't simultaneously say Josh plays for "an EPL side" and also hand waive away his poor goal scoring record at the same time. pick one. either he's a championship level striker (so was Dike) or he's not. norwich is a EPL side in name only.

    It seems from available evidence that Norwich made a panic buy and it doesn't look like it's going to work out for anybody any time soon.
     
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  22. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Something we can all agree on.
     
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  23. golazo68

    golazo68 Member

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 21, 2004
    Brazil
    Yeah and Lewy was playing in the Polish 1st Division at Josh's age and
    was being recruited by mediocre Premiership sides so what your saying makes no sense. NO ONE could have predicted what he became.

    But of course you will use him for your argument regardless.
     
  24. madvillain

    madvillain Member+

    Aug 28, 2011
    Club:
    Brooklyn Knights
    so you're telling us...there's a chance?
     
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  25. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t think you understand how statistics work. For every 1 Lewa, there are dozens of hot youth prospects who flameout and go nowhere. That’s how statistics work. That’s the group Sargent would be more likely to fall in, according to the numbers. And that’s how it looks like he’s turning out.
     
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