The Red Baron: Josh Sargent at Norwich City

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by Dave Marino-Nachison, Oct 11, 2016.

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  1. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    He's also not doing nearly as work in the midfield.
     
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  2. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Also keep in mind we don't know the instructions he's getting from the coach. Kohfeldt is not a reliable narrator, IMO, since he's contradicted himself in the past about the tactics he was going for (and before someone asks me for a source, I don't have it any more & I don't even remember the language used for the search that found it).
     
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  3. sXeWesley

    sXeWesley Member+

    Jun 18, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Admission you are not a true believer. Burn him at the stake!
     
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  4. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They need a new energetic 2 way middie with reputable offensive skills.
     
  5. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member+

    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It would certainly go a long way because then maybe they could allow Josh to focus more on O.... But they also need a holding midfielder that knows how to link up with the backs AND the more attacking players. Right now it seems like the only way Bremen can attack thru the center of the pitch is thru Sargent... The vast majority of the attacks are so predictable... pass it around the back until you find the LB/RB w/ minimal space... pass it to them and watch them get pressed by two opponents such that they have to pass it back to the CB or try and kick it long over the top. Even if the ball does get to the 18 under Bremen possession... they literally do not know how to pass in tight spaces and create a thru ball chance... that is probably why Bittencourt always decides to shoot. It is brutal to watch.

    One last thing.... I seriously can't recall the last time their keeper tried to catch the opponent on a counter. It seems like every time he gets the ball easily on a corner he rushes up to the top of the 18 like he is going to throw the ball and start the counter... only to then hold it up and start the inept play out of the back. As a matter of fact.... almost the entire team does this when they win the ball in the midfield. Do they know that you don't have to pass it to a CB during a buildup for a goal to count?
     
  6. mace

    mace Member+

    Indy 11
    United States
    Jun 5, 2004
    USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Their keeper has saved their butts a lot and he seems like a quality distributor. Kohfeldt seems to have some, errrr, unique tactics.
     
  7. gruenweiss87

    gruenweiss87 Member

    Werder Bremen
    Germany
    Sep 9, 2018
    They were happy with the overall team play in the first half (not the second) but Kohfeldt said after the game: "Wir hatten viele Situationen, in denen wir ins Tempo kommen können, in denen wir vielleicht noch ein bisschen besser die Box besetzen müssen." "We had many situation where we had the opportunity to increase the speed of play, but where we would have had to show more presence in the box."

    I think he's referring to Sargent, Bittencourt, and Osako. I'm leaving Füllkrug out because he was making runs into the box but was almost always stopped by Kevin Vogt before having to leave the field pretty early.

    By the way, most outlets gave Sargent a low grade for the Hoffenheim game. Deichstube saw him as the worst Bremen player.
     
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  8. mace

    mace Member+

    Indy 11
    United States
    Jun 5, 2004
    USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I didn't think he was the worst, but he wasn't great (as a striker). He did work his butt off.

    The Kicker 4.0 against Hoffenheim was an improvement from the previous 4.5's. :) Trending away from the BW6.
     
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  9. twoolley

    twoolley Member+

    Jan 3, 2008
    thanks for sharing!

    My original comment on the game was that I did think he would typically fade to the back post or just sort of drift around once the game got closer to their box(which unfortunately didn’t happen often). There is definitely more he can do to be dangerous but I thought he was more beneficial to the teams play than osako or bittencourt in this game. Maybe I have some bias though.
     
  10. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Looks like German media reporting Sargent will take Fullkrug's more classic 9 position, with Rashica or Chong inserted into the lineup.

    Means Sargent will either bag a goal while looking lively up front, or he'll touch the ball even less frequently than he has sitting deeper, and be a complete non-factor.

    Hoping for the former, expecting the latter. Though maybe Rashica/Chong can provide some attacking impetus and creativity.
     
  11. mace

    mace Member+

    Indy 11
    United States
    Jun 5, 2004
    USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep. Sarge on the fan site deichstube.de with the headline: Werder in Frankfurt without a true sharp shooter: Sargent, take it over!!

    https://www.deichstube.de/news/werd...kader-eren-dinkci-bundesliga-zr-90083751.html

    Video of a training from Wednesday:

    https://www.deichstube.de/news/werd...gezeichen-sturm-bundesliga-news-90083563.html

    It seems Josh is really front and center right now... man, the pressure is on the kid! I'm excited for him.

    The article talks about:

    Sarge hitting good shots in practice Wednesday, and he must translate that to the game on Saturday and bag a goal or two. Even if Osako is healthy he is not a proper replacement for Füllkrug or Selke: it is and remains Sargent's duty! Can he fulfill it?

    438 minutes played and only 4 shots for Sarge. He hasn't done much but he has still been getting praise: for defensive work and team spirit.

    Sarge quote from preseason: "I want to lead the team in goals. That is the has to be the goal for a striker." Well, now he has his chance. Fritz says "It can happen, that Josh will shift forward a bit more (against Frankfurt). We hope he can finally bag a couple, but we still need his defensive work regardless".

    A young U20 striker may get called up on Saturday, Eren Dinkcis, because of the lack of strikers due to injuries.
     
  12. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Time to stand up and be counted on
     
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  13. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Well, he's going to have a chance to actually get numbers.
     
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  14. mace

    mace Member+

    Indy 11
    United States
    Jun 5, 2004
    USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Another article in the local newspaper:

    https://www.weser-kurier.de/werder/...rtner-fuer-sargent-gesucht-_arid,1941659.html

    Interesting that Kohfeldt says "Just like in preseason, it is still true that I haven't thought for one second about a starting line up without Josh." He continues "He shouldn't run one millimeter less. It is unpleasant to play against us and find space. That has a lot to do with Josh in the past weeks. Josh is top fit and can play for 90 minutes."

    Wow, those are huge words, in my book. Josh continues to be front and center.

    It's cool to go to the general newspaper site and see Sarge on the front page, enjoy it while it lasts:

    https://www.weser-kurier.de
     
  15. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    I keep saying it (and I'm guilty of it as well), but the negativity surrounding Sargent is simply due to the success of the other precocious talents like Dest/McKennie/Reyna/etc.

    We can continue to be upset he's not scoring, since he's a striker. And get angry that Werder is such a boring watch. But you simply can't ignore these quotes, and that they are currently sitting midtable, and that the manager continues to say the team is largely built around a 20 year old redhead.

    Impressive stuff.
     
  16. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #5591 Jazzy Altidore, Oct 30, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
    Here's to hoping that some day coach will praise this center forward for something other than his defensive pressing.
     
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  17. mace

    mace Member+

    Indy 11
    United States
    Jun 5, 2004
    USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This.

    But it seems clear based on asst. coach Fritz’s comments that Bremen’s prime directive is to focus on D this year to avoid any relegation zone antics.
     
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  18. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #5593 Jazzy Altidore, Oct 30, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
    Coach has no other options than Josh. Gotta keep spirits up on this wobbly venture.

    No-one ever responds to the specific criticisms I have about Josh's game. Among them:

    (1) He has little one-on-one dribbling ability; (2) He is not physically strong and gets muscled around easily; (3) He cannot win headers against well-positioned center backs (related to 2); (4) He's not a natural finisher.

    Again, I'm not giving up hope on him. I'll continue watching Werder games when they don't conflict with a more compelling Yanks Abroad match. He is a nice passer and has a decent top speed (if not quickness) in the open field. He has a knack of getting open and heading the ball in the box. As noted, he's a very hard worker and presses well. And I hope he continues to improve. But having watched most of his Bundesliga matches, I think my opinion that his current game has significant gaps is a reasonable one.

    And I wouldn't be shocked if he ends up being the same player he is now, more or less, in five years.
     
  19. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    He's not going to take a guy one on one, but he's not bad on the ball. I also don't think one on one skills are necessary in a striker.

    This can be fixed.

    He can get strength, but yes, he doesn't seem like in the air is going to be his strength. I honestly don't see a lot of strikers in our pipe that are there except maybe Dike?

    I really don't understand what you mean by this. He's always been a pretty good finisher at youth levels. He's not even a poor finisher % wise now.

    I'm far more concerned about his ability to make the right runs and be where the ball is than his finishing. It's tough to tell where this is bad service or more on Josh.
     
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  20. ttrevett

    ttrevett Member+

    Apr 2, 2002
    Atlanta, GA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, if they can remain in the top half of the table with their level of talent like they are right now (7th!!!!!?????), Kohfeldt is a genius and making the right decisions about tactics.
     
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  21. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    (1) If you don't have great strength and you can't dribble past your defenders, your tools to beat the defense are limited as a forward.

    (2) Maybe, maybe not. Not everyone can become strong. For now, he's not strong.

    (3) Exactly, winning headers is not his strength. And that's a big part of being a number 9 center forward.

    (4) What don't you understand? For every goal he scores, he misses a couple good chances. To be fair, this applies to most players. But good strikers put away their chances. And what he did as a youth player isn't relevant to his play against adults, where he has less time and space to finish.
     
  22. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Do you have stats to back up any of these claims? Always seems like he does a good job with flick on headers to me, for example. But if u have stats to show he's not good at it, that would strengthen your argument.
     
  23. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    He's 8 for 21 on aerial challenges in the league this season.

    I don't really have a baseline to compare that to, but it doesn't seem great on its face.
     
  24. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    That's something I guess, even if it has zero comparison.

    How is that not good on its face? I'd think near 40% success going up against generally bigger and stronger central defenders is pretty good.
     
  25. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    0 goals scored in the Bundesliga is one stat. Otherwise people make soccer arguments without stats all the time. I've seen no stats from those praising his play, for example.
     

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