The Real Reboot Thread: Road to WC22

^^
I keep making these comparisons in my head to feel better.

Euro 2000 was a far worse showing than Euro 2020.
But the Euro 2000 squad was totally over the hill and was coached by a totally uninterested Ribbeck. Even a 100 yr old Loddar made it to the team.
That's why there was a total reboot.

By contrast the Euro 2020 squad was good. Player quality wise. 3 of 4 games were played at home in one stadium meaning no travel at all. The performance left a lot to be desired.
Since the players are good (on paper), maybe we will see small tweaks and not a radically different approach. Lets see how it pans out.

 

What I think is really missing with the team 2020 is stability (partly because of Löw). Like 2014 with Neuer, Boateng, Hummels, Khedira, Schweinsteiger, Klose. Stabile central line. Heard some German experts (like School, Kohler) often talk about thoose kind of blocks and think it might be something into it.

Today/ near future it is only Neuer, Kimmich, Goretzka.
Then Flick has to find stability probably for central defence (2-men) from some combination of Boateng, Hummels, Süle, Rüdiger, Ginter (near time).
With the striker issue maybe a combination of Werner and Havertz could be something to build upon (While waiting for the likes of Nmecha, Moukoko etz). Dont want Haaland to join them this year for the sake of their develoapment in near time with WC in mind.

think if the stability is there with a central core it will be easier for the likes of Sané, Gnabry to perform and integrate players like Musiala, Baku, Raum, wirtz etz

 

True, not ultimate. Though think Müller and Hummels would have contributed better of they would have been integrated earlier.

Will get interesting to se how Flick is reasoning with veterans.

Neuer had a wierd cup, with few shots against him though 7 goals conceded but like only one obvious mistake. Still think he can do a good WC.

 

Don't know where to post this.
This thread seems like the right place.

After this performance, I keep reminiscing over the Euro 2000 campaign. That was such a disaster.
Back then I was an accounting intern ( unpaid) at a firm in Kreutzal. Very quaint place. I used to watch all the games at my boss's home. All the interns would join. My boss's grandmother also stayed with her.
I clearly remember the Germany Portugal game. 3-0. The general shock and disbelief. Even Oma was in tears and flung away her glasses. Loddar's 150th game and also his last. It was just an overwhelming day.

I think that was the day the aura of invincibility around the German team died forever. Sure WC98 and WC94 were shock exits. But they were upsets. People still feared playing Germany. But beating Germany 3-0 in an EC on a final group game in a decider match? That was too much to digest. This kind of stuff happened to other teams, not Germany.
Since then there has been *that* 5-1 in Munich (first ever home WCQ loss), huge losses in friendlies against Italy, Romania. More recently the loss to Korea in the WC, the shellacking at the hands of Spain and a WCQ loss to N Macedonia at home.
My expectations are subdued. Even for the 2014 campaign, I wasn't that confident till the WC started. In contrast I absolutely think that Germany was one of the strongest teams at USA 94.

This EC campaign loss just doesn't sting as much. Far too desensitised to tournament losses now. Even if its against England.

Does anyone else feel the same?

I wish that Flick does a great job and turns things around. But I'm not optimistic about WC22.

 

Having already experienced a World Cup victory from Germany, I am far more interested in Germany winning the Euro, but if Flick surprises everyone and wins the World Cup in eighteen months I have no objections.

 

I think every nation has respect for teams like Germany, Italy due to their history thinking past failures where anomalies.The most important thing should be to produce good players
( mentality important here to not just skills) and recruite good coaches to the nationalteam. Germany should be able to do this, big country which love football. Around 2000 (almost to young to remember) enough quality was not there.2018 2021 Löw plays a big role i think not being able to envolve after 2014.

Think f.eg. Englands failures in the past is more down to lack of broad qualities and coachning. They are closing in now I think with good coaches from abroad. Hope they keep Southgate.The penalty thing might be a mental thing though. Even with their golden generations from the past I think there game has been quite unsofisticated.

Think Germany has been succesful historically mainly because of broad (but very underrated) qualities of players and their skill to adapt to a team and being leaders. Ofcourse it is good to look at other coutries which are succesfull for the moment but think it would be bad to just copy paste it forgeting what made Germany successful in the past.

 

This x10,000.

I also agree about instilling mental toughness, as far too often I've seen German teams fall apart mentally whenever the opposing team opens the scoreline.

 

hope Flick can change this atleast partly in the short run and that it is not to fundamental. Felt like only Havertz and maybe Goretzka (Kimmich isolated on the wing) took responsibility not being afraid in the offensive game against England.

 

hahahaha Qatar ambassador says Qatar airways has no interest in cooperating with DFB and here it comes "despite such a request from the side of DFB which was left unanswered by us to this day"

Das ist großartig: Der Botschafter Katars in Deutschland dementiert Verhandlungen zwischen #QatarAirways und dem #DFB . Und jetzt kommt's: Trotz einer Anfrage SEITENS DES DFB ... pic.twitter.com/M91T2V49Ih

— Christian Bartlau (@chbartlau) July 16, 2021

 

Jogi never take a friendly match seriously, such arrogance approach when a big scoreline defeat doesnt bother him at all. If you play for Germany ,you cant lose even in a friendly match let alone a thrashing defeat. When you lose so many times (even if it's just a friendly match) it will tarnished the credibility of the team and the player. I'm sorry to say that thanks to Jogi, some of the NT player lost that pride to fight for Germany, they seems clueless and scared when the opponent scored first. Flash back to the match v Korea '18, they were superior than the Korean player v player, but somehow they running out of an idea.

 

Most painful of all was the Euro 2012 SF vs Italy, which many consider the match where Germany died of nothing. That was a frankly average Italian NT whilst the German NT was oozing class, but once Balotelli opened the scoreline you could tell by their body language that the German players had mentally collapsed.

 

Hope Van Bommel plans with Baku as right-back.

think I read somewhere that he prefers 4 at the back

 

And Maxi Arnold as the captain and starter and Kimmich warm the bench. VfL all the way!

 

This is double edged. I would say that the expectations are low. Or should I say Loew.

In WC 2006, at home , a third place was celebrated as ' Weltmeister der Herzen'.
the 2010 WC third place too was celebrated as a success of sorts.
People actually were *happy* that the team ended up third at these events.

I was quite young, but from hearsay, I do remember that almost everyone was heartbroken that Germany lost the 86 final to Argentina. No one counted it as an achievement of any kind. Ditto the semifinal loss to Holland at home in 88. And that was Maradona's Argentina we are talking about. Even a final was not good enough. In contrast people were even gloating about the 2010 WC 3rd place where the team lost to a relatively weaker to be WC champion: Spain.

That is the major difference. If being an 'almost there' is viewed as a success, some of this rubs off on the team. Maybe they know an 'almost good' show would also suffice. Mental toughness, or whatever that is, is instilled by having your backs to the ropes. Not by getting complacent by celebrating mini feats.

 

Think you have a point that the ambition was lowered.

however think 2006 was celebrated more for Germany being back playing good football. And that Germany coordinated an amazing cup at home soil and there was this general optimism in the air.

2010 was a young team who managed to beat England 4-1 and Argentina 4-0 which was amazing. Then Spain again as 2008

2012 it felt like nothing but a final would be enough. Same goes for 2016.

2018 and 2021 real bad.

So it feels like there were an acceptance being second to Spain 2008-2012 and 2018-2021 there were an acceptance towards Löw because of 2014. Maybe it was 98-04 which made us lower the bar being thankfull to Löw bringing us back.

 

Agree. 16 was a little bit unlucky to. Needs the margins on your side. Could even argue that 2021 (even though bad coaching).

one thing Germany really had to cope with to since 2012 or something is that every team almost (exept likes of Spain) park the bus against us. Quite frustrating

 

Yes, Italy should be a good example to look at in the future. Think we need that high energi, high pressing, brave game to hurt boring, defensive organized teams. And hope and think that is what Flick wants to.

Italy also seemed to have a positive feeling/ momentum on their side to. Talking about small margins they where probably going out against Austria if it was not for 0,2 meters offside and won due to 2 penalty shootouts. Though being arguably the best team (Spain had them on the ropes though)