The REAL Goal Scoring Leader

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by MouseyTongue, Oct 12, 2003.

  1. MouseyTongue

    MouseyTongue New Member

    Feb 16, 2001
    a box in the Chairma
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ruiz scored his seventh penalty kick goal tonight to "tie" Twellman with 15 goals for the year. It annoys me that PKs count the same as goals in the run of play, so I took a look at the goal scoring leaders table and took out the PKs and it looks like this:

    Twellman 15
    Donovan 11
    Chung 11
    Ralph 10
    Razov 9
    Ruiz 8
    Spencer 8
    Buddle 8
    Mathis 8
    McBride 7
    Preki 6
    Mullan 6
    Noonan 6

    At best Twellman will tie with the floppy fishie for the official goal scoring title but that will mean Ruiz not scoring in the next two weeks and no one else catching them. But throw out the PKs and no one can hold a candle to TnT
     
  2. Mike Toole

    Mike Toole New Member

    Dec 23, 2002
    Cambridge, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, yeah. The Revs usually don't need penalties to win. (I only say 'usually' because of last night.) We've gotten, what, three penalty shots this season? Pepe put one away, Twellman blew it, and Stevie got the win last night. That's IT.

    Revs can reach the postseason without flopping around in the box. :D
     
  3. JohnnyRev

    JohnnyRev Member

    Feb 23, 2001
    Boston, MA
    Right on, Mousey! 15 goals from the run of play in 22 games is pretty amazing. Ruiz hasn't scored a "regular" goal in weeks in an MLS game. But then, with LA's midfield play, he's lucky if he ever gets the ball.

    I watched some of the Dallas/Metros game last night, and saw two pks missed in the last 10 minutes. Dallas is just pathetic, and Eddie Johnson is way overrated. The Metros weren't too great, either, but at least they were creating some chances.
     
  4. Feldspar

    Feldspar Member+

    Nov 19, 1998
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I just hope Preki racks up a few more goals and assists to keep the top of the point leaders chart. Better a 40-year-old than a punk like Ruiz or Razov....
     
  5. ProfZodiac

    ProfZodiac Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 17, 2003
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sad to say, but I have a lot of respect for Ante Razov. Yes, he's a punk and a hack, but he's an incredible goalscorer, and you have to give him his props for that.

    Ruiz, however, is a damn dirty diver who wants to be Cancela.

    :D:D
     
  6. Right on!!
    I don't mind it if they award the PK goal to the player that just got fouled(most probably he was going to score anyway if he wasn't fouled), but what I don't like is the awarding of the PK(and points) to the same person, regardless of who got taken down.
     
  7. JohnnyRev

    JohnnyRev Member

    Feb 23, 2001
    Boston, MA
    I just saw the Ruiz PK on MLS Wrap. Ruiz drew the PK himself with an embarrassing flop in the box. He deliberately tangled his leg with the defender's, instead of going around him, and the ref couldn't see it.
     
  8. BigFrank

    BigFrank New Member

    Apr 3, 1999
    Dublin, Ireland
    Apples and oranges are both fruit

    Sorry but PKs are part of the game, and as long as PK counts the same as goals scored in the run of play, they'll count the same in the scoring race.

    Who is to say that Ruiz didn't earn those PKs by being brought down, or that his teammates earned them for him by attacking. Same as Ralston and others work to set up Twellman, who is more of a finisher than someone that creates his own goals.

    What's next, not giving the same value to goals scored by the head?
    How about double value for goals scored on shots from outside the box?

    A goal is a goal, and the Revos are fortunate that they have Twellman, who is good at getting them no matter how they are scored.
     
  9. Treetaliano

    Treetaliano Member

    Jun 29, 2002
    San Diego
    ?????

    Watch it again dude.

    He megged him, and was hacked down AFTER he went around him...
     
  10. prk166

    prk166 BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 8, 2000
    Med City
    What's next? Are we going to start poo-pooing goals scored when a team is in good form? When they have too talented a midfield so the service is better than others? It's part of the game and it's not to slighted.
     
  11. prk166

    prk166 BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 8, 2000
    Med City
    Sweet lord! "Deliberately tangled his leg"??!?!?!?? What kind of mushrooms did you have on your pizza?
     
  12. ChrisE

    ChrisE Member

    Jul 1, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    I agree that it's not fair to count penalty goals the same as regular goals, because players like etcheverry and ruiz get a lot of pk's that they didn't earn (they are therefore not representative of their talent as goalscorers), but Ruiz's goal last night was legitimate. He earned and took the P.K.
     
  13. soccertim

    soccertim Member

    Mar 29, 2001
    Mass
    Ruiz didn't meg him. He kicked the ball around the defender on one side, went around the defender on the other side, decided that he wasn't going to get the shot off, jumped up, and swung his leg into the defender's leg.

    Aside from that, you were spot on.
     
  14. Greddy

    Greddy Member

    Jun 24, 2003
    Chicago
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We should also make them call their shots. Like "top left" or "center right". That way, if twellman calls top right and it goes in the bottom, we would know that that wasn't his intention and not award him the points. You know, so the points would be more representative of his talent as a goalscorer.

    Personally, it annoys me when people act like it takes absolutely no skill to take a penalty kick. If the goal is a gimme, then why do the keepers even try to stop it? Why do teams have designated kick takers?

    You guys have to come to terms with the fact that soccer is not baseball. A players skill and talent can't be summed up in stats. If you want to know someone's talent as a goalscorer, YOU HAVE TO WATCH THEM PLAY.

    Rant over.

    Peace
     
  15. JohnnyRev

    JohnnyRev Member

    Feb 23, 2001
    Boston, MA
    Right on, soccertim! You could see that Ruiz deliberately stuck his left leg into the defender rather than try to step around him and go for the ball. A flop, in my book.
     
  16. Chip

    Chip New Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Connecticut
    A goal is a goal is a goal! It makes no difference.
     
  17. MouseyTongue

    MouseyTongue New Member

    Feb 16, 2001
    a box in the Chairma
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am not saying that a PK requires no skill. Just like a direct free kick, it requires different skills than scoring from the run of play. But I don't see how anyone can argue that the odds of scoring on a PK are not significantly higher than scoring from the run of play (even on a breakaway with no defender in sight and taking the shot from near the spot!) My sole point here is that PKs are qualitatively different in that they are statistically easier to score. If there is going to be a competition for these things then why mix apples and oranges? I'm simply advocating for an apples trophy, give an orange award too if you like.
     
  18. Fiero20

    Fiero20 Member

    Aug 3, 2002
    Gillette Stadium
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    a few things:

    first - not only does twellman have more "real" goals, but he has played in fewer games than that stupid fish flop.

    second - the person that gets "hacked" or "fouled" in the box should be the one taking the kick, just like in hockey on penalty shot.

    third - im am disappointed in treetaliano for having a panthers avatar. i really am. and he is sticking up for Ruiz. NOT cool.
     
  19. shuvy87

    shuvy87 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 17, 2003
    USA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Well...I hate to tell u this but Pk does count as goal.

    But look, we know the truth interms of goal scorer. TnT played less games than flappy fish and score 15 (not including PK).

    Ruiz played 2 games more than TnT and 15 goals, half of them are PK.

    Rev are better than LA any way....that's the difference between 39 points and 32 points. Beside if Dallas did not play crapy this year, LA would ended up 5th in Western.
     

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