Benito is one of the best soccer minds on this board. The rest of you should pitch in and buy him a membership. As for the point about when should the US have taken Falluja, the final solution is that some sort of Iraqi force has to hold the city. In the spring we tried an 'Afghani solution', that is put the local tribal leaders in charge. It worked VERY well in Afghanistan. Not so much in Falluja. My guess is that the Afghani leaders are good at enforcing their law on their tribe but that role was taken over by Saddam in Iraq. A general idea of order apparently atrophied in Iraq. The experiment to let the local leaders try to keep control was a valid experiment. It didn't work. Now we have to try another experiment. The US is going to go house to house. We can win that one although it will be bloody. It will be hard to keep the win becasue US forces have to leave and the Iraqis (some set of Iraqis) have to be left in charge. We don't know if that will work. If it doesn't work, other countries will probably pitch in like Egypt and Saudi. But again, they will have to leave sometime too. Eventually some group of Iraqis has to keep control of Falluja.