Beat me to it. Except that the moles whack back. And "Game Over" doesn't mean you shrug and go get another beer. It means you come home in a body bag.
The gist of this is ok. However, the problem is if we have to take action against more cities like the one we are taking against Falluja. There will be a limit to how much the Iraqi people as a whole are willing to put up with. Mosul, for example, is home to something like a million people. It is a much larger city, and would likely be a nightmare situation if it becomes the new headquarters for the insurgency. Hounding rogue gangs of insurgents, keeping them on the move, keeping them from establishing a "base" would be wonderful. Is it likely to go that way? When insurgents now basically have even more fuel for their fire? It is far more likely that a city like Mosul will become a new headquarters and the ******** will really hit the fan when we have to ask a million people to leave so we can go in and start levelling sh!t to stomp out yet another hotbed. Nope, better hope your scenario is realistic. Hope that we might actually have cut the head off the snake in Falluja and the insurgency are left with nowhere to hide in large numbers. I don't think that is realistic, but being hopefull is just fine.
It's not difficult to understand the reality of facts if you try to. The insurgents are already everywhere. They don't need to move from place to place (they surely do) because the insurgents are mainly a x% of the iraqi population. That x% becomes a big number if you count all those who oppose the occupation. Also the idea to let iraqis in control of the places is a bit naive given the situation. http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20041113/wl_nm/iraq_mosul_dc_7
The worldwide powerful network with cells in 70 different countries called al qaeda doesn't exist. I didn't say islamist terrorism doesn't exist. More infos about it in the BBC documentary "The power of nightmares: the rise and fall of the politics of fear".
Putting aside the nonsense of the argument (we will get hit again big time), how is it better to die in Iraq than die in the USA? That could make sense if only a few hundred soldiers died, but now were well over 1000. At what point to we give up, when the number of Iraq war fatalities exceeds 9-11??? I can understand why people supported the war in the first place, but I can't see the logic in staying much longer.
That whole, "We'll hunt down and kill the terrorists no matter where they are", did fail. We're hoping they all come to Iraq, and if any are ploting against us along the Pakistani border tough ********.
Were you drunk when you posted this? Please quote specifically what I posted that shows I'm "indulging in a stupid, pointless, blinkered pose that military jargon is going to trump the ********ing obvious." How did you get that from my objection to people putting false words in the mouths of military leadership, and pontificating about failure and consequences of Falluja while the battle still rages? Seriously, what are you refering to? Other than your rant directed at me, what don't I "get", Dan? Thanks for answering your question to me. Did I say, or suggest, I knew what we were trying to win in Falluja -- or Iraq for that matter? Did I say, or suggest, "leveling" Faluja helps liberate Iraq? Please quote anything I posted that gave you either idea. OK, now I'm convinced; you were drunk. The rest of your post shows you either misunderstood something or all of what I posted on this thread and/or have no idea of my view on the validity of this war. I have never supported the decision to invade Iraq. Simmer down, bro.
The only thing that could have guaranteed victory in this war was the use of overwhelming force initially. We (that is, Rumsfeld) chose not to, and, as a result, the insurgency flourished. What happened to the Powell doctrine ? Wasn't he part of this cabinent ? Do not mistake a military victory for winning this war. Our military force is superb and, given a purely military task, will accomplish it without a doubt. Dan's point is correct. We lost the opportunity to make this a purely military victory when we didn't invade with 300 K troops. After our failure to guarantee the safety and livelihood of the average Iraqi in the first few weeks after the invasion, we lost the hearts and minds. Abu Graib was one more nail in the coffin. We can repeat Fallujah all over the country (e.g. local military victories) and still not emerge with what we set out to do: install a pro-Western democratic government.
We have to go in there and anywhere else they gathered. They set up and buildup in these places then we are in trouble. Keep them moving because they are afraid if being caught they will be to busy to make bombs for example. That is a skill people have to learn, and they need a safe place to do it. Amatures try to do it they blow themselves up which would be a good thing. I hope they try it while on the run.
Yeah sure, the devil, the angels, the saints go marchin in... Do you want to be in that number? Born to be Abramo. Elio Elio E-e-e-e-e-elio Elio e le storie tese. BRI Elio Elio ... e le storie tese. Resta cu'mme Signore la sera, resta cu'mme, e avremo la pace. Famme 'mpazzi', famme pena', la notte mai piu' scendera' Ti porteremo ai nostri fratelli, ti porteremo lungo le stradeeeeeeee vita d'a vita mia; nu 'mme'mporta d'o passate, nu'mme'mporta chi t'avute per le vie del mondo Signor. Nu'mme'mporta d'o passate nu'mme'mporta chi t'avuto resta cu'mme, cu'mme. Abramo non andare non partire non lasciare la tua casa. Cosa credi di trovar ? La strada e' sempre quella ma la gente e' differente, ti e' nemica, Dove credi di arrivar ? BORN, BORN TO BE ABRAMO, BORN TO BE ABRAMO. Andate e predicate il mio Vangelo: parola di Jahve'. Esci dalla tua terra e vai dove ti mostrero'. Le reti sulla spiaggia abbandonate le han lasciate i pescatori, son partiti con Gesu'. La folla che osannava se n'e' andata ma in silenzio e una domanda sembra ai dodici portar. BORN, BORN TO BE ABRAMO, BORN TO BE ABRAMO. Quello che lasci tu lo conosci: il tuo Signore cosa ti da? Un popolo, la terra e la promessa: parola di Jahve'. Esci dalla tua terra e vai dove ti mostrero'. Parola di Jahve' Esci dalla tua terra e vai dove ti mostrero'. Parola di Jahve', parola di Jahve', parola di Jahve', parola di Jahve'. La parola di Jahve' e' la parola di Jahve'. Abramo non andare non andare, non partire non partire, non sono mica Bhagwan o Sai Baba: io sono Jahve
I was making a general statement. Certainly it applies to the leaders in this administration as they are the ones who first chose to fight, then chose to fight with too few troops and without an international mandate.
Kerry supported staying in Iraq. My logic is that I don't want to lose another 1000 people in order to justify the first thousand. If we can't acheive our objectives, it's time to leave.
But, dude, we like totally won Vietnam in military terms. Woah, damn skippy, how did I start channelling Alex and manny?
Home-grown insurgency, just for those who were drinking the foreign-fighter Kool Aid.: Few Foreigners Among Insurgents Judging from fighters captured in Fallouja, all but about 5% are Iraqi, U.S. officials say. by John Hendren CAMP FALLOUJA, Iraq — The battle for the city of Fallouja is giving U.S. military commanders some insight into this country's insurgency, painting a portrait of a home-grown uprising dominated by Iraqis, not foreign fighters. Of the more than 1,000 men between the ages of 15 and 55 who were captured in intense fighting in the center of the insurgency over the last week, just 15 are confirmed foreign fighters, Gen. George W. Casey, the top U.S. ground commander in Iraq, said Monday. There was evidence that an organized force of foreign fighters was present. One dead guerrilla bore Syrian identification. A number of insurgents believed to be foreigners wore similar black "uniforms," each with black flak vests, webbed gear and weapons superior to those of their Iraqi allies. But despite an intense focus on the network of Jordanian-born militant Abu Musab Zarqawi by U.S. and Iraqi officials, who have insisted that most Iraqis support the country's interim government, American commanders said their best estimates of the proportion of foreigners among their enemies is about 5%...
There are lots of foreign fighters among the enemy. But I am in no way, shape, or form suprised by the revelation that most enemy casualties from the Fallujah operation were Sunni militants. The foreigners could just pack up and leave. Sucks to lose a safe haven, but I'm guessing that they don't particularly care which Iraqi city they operate out of.