Cannot agree with Draxler being overrated but doesn't really matter. I actually think Low contributed to Draxler's demise. When he started playing for Germany he stopped dribbling and long range shooting which were his strengths and seemed to try to shift to Low's short passing game.
I'm not sure you it's fair to blame Low for this, the majority of his training and development would come from the club not the NT, right?
His move to Wolfsburg to collect the easy pay-check instead of challenging himself abroad certainly did not help.
I do think Low has a lot of blame. Back in those days, Low's Germany didn't really care about dribbling was more about being technical and emulating Spain. Sure we won a WC but when the game changed it bit us in the arse. Even the clubs were producing such players emulating that logic. Playing false 9, ignoring dribbling/difference makers/individuality it became more about making cogs that are part of a machine. We were also ignoring physicality on the field too. In youth clubs seem to have disdain for dribblers too as they could lose possession, whole thing was possession obsessed. I was critical about dfb and dev since 2017 even with CC17 and U21 Euro 2017 trophies. Because one can see all we did was neverending passing and no individuality. Who is dumb enough to throw dribblers/difference makers aside? Other posters were also critical too. now dribbling/difference makers have been the rage everywhere for years. One sees clubs bitching about German dev of such players for past 2 years as well. There is a reason why huge amount of older AM/W aren't good enough for 1BL because their skills are outdated. And why huge amount of players in those positions are foreigners. of course one sees more such players from 01-onwards and from older it feels like a handful per age group tops. I mean is there 1 relevant non CF 94 attacker in Germany? Some are legit close to 0.
IIRC Draxler had elite data for his age at Schalke His development really screwed up when he went to wolfsburg in '15 I suspect he would have done better at Arsenal, even under late phase Wenger, we would have looked after him a lot more, and our team was still decent back then.
The thing is from 2010-14 Flick would really take advantage of an elite generation, plus a large increase in footballing awareness/knowledge that took place at club level for the core of his side. In 2010, germany had an exciting generation emerge, but were pretty much a pure countering side and lacked other ways to play - this was clear versus spain where they just couldn't cope. Between 2010-14 that generation really matured tactically, especially in midfield. Ozil and Khedira would play in Spain. Whatever the failings of Pep at Bayern, Schweini, Kroos, Muller, Götze & Lahm learned the Spanish positional style. Boateng became a much better zonal defender etc. So he was able to create a great tactical fusion of German/Spanish styles - culminating in the demolition of Brazil with a aggressive, pressing style. After '14 not only did that generation get old together, but Löw didn't bring any new tactical brain to the party - e,g other top teams focussed on set pieces yet Germany didn't ... So germany kind of had to wait for a new generation of much more direct players to emerge - but even still, Löw doesn't seem to know how to use them.
Agree with this. It became obvious to me watching Draxler play for Germany that he was instructed to play a certain way that effectively neutralised his talents. He was convinced to ignore the development of his skills to become a cog in the machine. I also think what happens to these young players is that they get these big money contracts to big clubs and they get into a mentality of "I've made it!", not realising that this is actually the beginning of their journey and they now need to continue to develop into a world class player. Havertz needs to realise the Chelsea move is just his first step. I am a great admirer of CR7, not only because of his talent, but because he woke up every day with the mentality of I am going to get better and I am going to be the best in the world. Managers would say he would reach training sessions an hour early, practicing his free kicks, etc. This is the mentality these young players need to have. The determination to be the best in the world!
Draxler's development was mismanaged because he went to Wolfsburg instead of going to a bigger club where he would work with elite trainers and other elite players he could learn from. The difference is CR7 went to Utd as unfinished product where his development is widely credited to working with Rene Meulensteen and Carlos Queiroz not to mention playing with elite attacking talent in Rooney and Giggs It's similar to how Goretzka or Gnabry have kicked on at Bayern I worry about Havertz at Chelsea for this reason, if Lampard turns out to be a fail.
Fair enough. But then he went to PSG and things seem to have gotten much worse. We are derailing this thread a bit though. I really hope Havertz has the correct mentality and guidance to become world class. I do wonder why Bayern haven't tried to compete with Chelsea for him, though. I heard they were interested.
it's more like there is no money and Bayern confirmed that Sane was priority and spent like almost $50M on Sane. Havertz is/was way too expensive anyways. now read every official word, Bayern can only buy new players if they sell players.
I mean he only joined his new team during International break in September and not all the team was present too as injuries+NT call ups.
I think Werner will adjust quicker then Havertz, he has been with the team longer plus his style is well suited to the counter attacking pace of the EPL. Havertz wasn't bad though, his work rate was good and the team won. Yes he can do better but he is still a young player and this is the first move of his career, to a different country. It's unlikely for him to shine instantly.
Sorry for derailing the thread again but I just wanted to say that Kevin de Bruyne became world class at Wolfsburg the season before Draxler joined them. How can Wolfsburg mismanaging him be a good excuse for Draxler?
Yep true, and a lot has to do with how badly Draxler integrated at Wolfsburg But also the situations were different Draxler was an elite youth talent already, and stayed one year too long at Schalke before a sideways move KDB had not worked out at chelsea, and moving to germany to get first team football - but KDB is one of the top midfielders of his generation whereas I think it is clear Draxler is nowhere near the same level Why Draxlers development stalled so dramatically is hard to say, but I do believe the move to Wolfsburg was the wrong club
I think the main cause for the stall is Low's influence. When your skill set is XYZ and you are being told that to be a part of the national team set-up is to abandon XYZ and instead focus on JLM, that must derail you.
Havertz is getting roughed up pretty bad on social media and online after his debut the other day. Playing in the EPL is going to be a massive jump for him. The price tag also further increases the level of scrutiny he'll face. Hope he settles it down and finds his way in the upcoming next few games.
This is the real problem of modern world with proliferation of social media. To have someone as young as Havertz doing debut then got roughed up after just 1 match. This is the reason why I don't have FB and IG account. Toxicity all over the place.
Something went wrong in his last 18 months or so at Schalke His breakout was 2012 - then all the hype started as he was producing elite data for his age, but he signed a new deal at Schalke, then made a bad move to Wolfsburg, then a sell out move to Paris In reality - he never achieved his 12/13 numbers again - so his development stalled out - IMO that is why he should have gone somewhere like Arsenal in '15 - like a club with track record of taking talents forwards, before move to a destination club Lots of players like Nasri, RvP followed that path. Trading Schalke for Wolfsburg does nothing development wise, and he also never settled there