The Primavera League [R]

Discussion in 'Italy' started by SueB, Oct 31, 2004.

  1. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    While I watch the Juventus-Genoa primavera game on RaiSport, I thought I'd start a thread with a little info on the top-level Italian developmental league.

    Some basic information on the league:

    - The 2004-5 Primavera league is for players born Jan 1, 1985 or later (U-20s) with the exception that two over-age players are allowed in any game before the playoff phase. During the playoffs, the two over-age players can be born no earlier than Jan 1, 1984.

    - All Primavera teams are associated with and funded by professional clubs which are in either the Lega Calcio (Serie A/B) or Lega Calcio Serie C.

    - The 2004-5 Primavera championship consists of 50 teams split into 4 groups. The 50 teams are from the 42 Serie A and B clubs plus 8 from Serie C (Como, Pistoiese, Cittadella, Chieti, Groseto, Sora, Lodigiani and Benevento).

    - The 4 groups are regional - Girone A = Northwest, Girone B = Northeast, Girone C = Central and Girone D = South. During the regular season, teams play each team in their own group two times - home and away.

    - The top 4 teams in each group advance to the playoff phase. The first round of the playoffs is played in a home-and-away format, while the quarterfinals, semifinals and final are played at one site in June.

    Lecce won the last two Primavera championships, beating Inter in the finals on both occasions. Inter won the championship the previous season and Lazio the year before that.

    The 2004-5 championship is only 2 or 3 games old, depending on the group, so the tables haven't taken shape yet - but Cagliari, Ternana and Siena all have 100% records after 3 matches. Atalanta, Inter, Treviso, Verona, Lazio, and Catanzaro are on 6 pts from 2 matches.

    Meanwhile, the The Primavera Coppa Italia is currently at the round of 16 after a preliminary group stage trimmed the field down from 48. The return legs of the ottavi di finali take place this week.
  2. sakana

    sakana BigSoccer Supporter

    May 23, 2003
    OGC Nice
    Nat'l Team:
    Thanks, Sue-- that's fascinating. It's amazing to me, given the horrible financial problems in Italian football, that such an extensive youth system exists.

    So teams play everyone in their group, regardless of what league the parent club plays in? What do the tables and results usually look like, do you know? I mean, can the Serie C teams compete with the bigger, richer clubs?
  3. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    Actually, the youth system goes down even further than this, with some clubs having youth teams all the way down to U-10. I used to have all the names of the divisions (Beretti, Allievi, etc etc) and age-groups all written out but finally threw out the piece of paper, figuring I could always find it on-line. Guess what! I can't.

    As for whether the smaller clubs can compete, I don't know about the smallest teams, but there are certainly smallISH clubs who have youth programs with excellent reputations - Lecce, Bari, Atalanta, etc.

    This link has all the Primavera league and cup-winners.

    Torino has actually won the most championships, but none lately, which corresponds with the parent clubs' decline. After that on the list come the usual suspects - Inter, Roma, Lazio, Fiorentina, Juve. Milan has surprisingly only one Primavera title - that way back in 1965.

    In the past 10 years, Perugia, Lecce and Lazio have each won the championship twice with Inter, Empoli, Atalanta and Bari winning once apiece. This trend perhaps reflects that the big teams decided that it's safer to buy players when they are already proven rather than to develop hundreds of boys in hopes of a few of them becoming pros.
  4. Spartak

    Spartak Member

    Nov 6, 1999
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    These are the leagues Milan has a youth team in:


    There might be more leagues than this but I'm not sure.
  5. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    Juve's youth teams:

    * Primavera
    * Berretti
    * Allievi Nazionali
    * Allievi Regionali
    * Allievi Sperimentali
    * Giovanissimi Professionisti
    * Giovanissimi Regionali
    * Giovanissimi Sperimentali A
    * Giovanissimi Sperimentali C
    * Giovanissimi Sperimentali D
    * Esordienti 91 G
    * Esordienti 91 M
    * Esordienti 92 B
    * Esordienti 92 G
    * Pulcini 93 A
    * Pulcini 93 M
    * Pulcini 94 F
    * Pulcini 94 G
    * Pulcini 94 M
    * Pulcini 95 G
    * Pulcini 95 M
    * Pulcini 95 P

    What I was looking for and couldn't find was the age-level each group corresponds to.
  6. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    The following clubs have advanced to the quarterfinals of the Primavera Coppa Italia:


    Lecce will in all likelihood join them as they have a 3-1 lead after the first leg in Catania. The return leg is not until Nov 17. The quarterfinals take place in December.
  7. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    Found some more info about the "Berretti" level (aka "Juniores", I think). The age-level for this league is actually the same as for the Primavera league - it's just a lower level of competition.

    Currently, there are 114 teams in the "Campionato Nazionale Dante Berretti", representing clubs whose main teams are in the following leagues -

    Serie A - 6
    Serie B - 6
    Serie C1 - 36
    Serie C2 - 55
    Serie D - 11

    Because most of the representatives are from Serie C, the league is administered by the Lega Calcio Serie C. Obviously, some clubs (namely Atalanta, Inter, Juve, Milan, Parma and Siena in Serie A) support teams in both the Primavera and Berretti divisions.
  8. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    Found the age-levels for the 2004/5 season for the other competitive age groups:

    Primavera - 85/86 (U-20)
    Berretti (Juniores) - 85/86 (U-20)
    Allievi - 87/88 (U-18)
    Giovannissimi - 89/90 (U-16)
    Esordienti - 91/92 (U-14)
    Pulcini - 93/94/95 (U-12)
    Piccoli amici - 96/97 (U-9)

    The bigger clubs have one team for each birth year. Therefore, the Primavera is mostly U-20s with the Berretti mainly consisting of U-19s. In the Allievi, the U-18s compete on a team in the national league, while the U-17s compete in a regional league. And so on down the list. Not too much in the way of "playing up" in the Italian developmental system.
  9. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    An update on the Primavera TIM Cup (Coppa). Here are the quarterfinal matchups:

    Inter vs Verona
    Milan vs Lazio
    Juventus vs Roma
    Bari vs Lecce

    I think they actually had a RANDOM DRAW!! Those two words normally don't have much of a place in Italian soccer. Anyway, the two legs take place Dec 1 and 15.
  10. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    BTW, checking in on the league standings, after 5/6 games, the four group leaders are Cagliari, Inter, Lazio and Lecce. The Milan derby takes place on Sunday, televised live at 5 am EST on Raisport ( ), for any diehards out there.
  11. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    Quarterfinal 1st leg results of the Coppa:-

    Inter 5 Verona 2
    Milan 2 Lazio 1
    Juventus 2 Roma 1
    Bari 1 Lecce 1

    In the league, the group leaders are now Atalanta, Inter, Roma and Lecce.
  12. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    Three quarterfinals were completed yesterday, with Inter, Milan and Lecce advancing to the semifinals:-

    Verona 0 Inter 5 (Inter wins 10-2 on aggregate)
    Lazio 0 Milan 2 (Milan wins 4-1)
    Lecce 3 Bari 1 (Lecce wins 4-2)

    The Roma-Juventus match was moved back to next Wednesday. Juve holds a 2-1 lead after the first leg.

    In the league, with one round remaining before the winter break, the 4 group leaders are Atalanta, Inter, Lazio and Lecce.
  13. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    Today's Roma-Juventus match finished 1-1, so Juve advances to the Primavera Cup semifinals. I haven't seen if the semifinal matchups have been determined as yet. They take place Jan 12 and Feb 9.
  14. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    The semifinal draw:

    Jan 12
    Inter vs Milan
    Lecce vs Juventus

    Feb 9
    Milan vs Inter
    Juventus vs Lecce
  15. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    Primavera Coppa Italia semifinal results so far (2nd leg dates were changed a bit):-

    Jan 12
    Inter 1 Milan 3
    Milan 0 Inter 2
    (Milan advances on away goals)

    Jan 12
    Lecce 3 Juventus 1
    ->return leg scheduled for Feb 23

    In the league, here are the top 4 teams in each group so far:

    Group A
    Atalanta 30
    Juventus 25
    Parma 22
    Cagliari 22

    Group B
    Inter 33
    Verona 27
    Milan 24
    Bologna 21

    Group C
    Roma 36
    Lazio 27
    Chieti 24
    Perugia 24

    Group D
    Lecce 33
    Bari 28
    Reggina 22
    Salernitana 21
    Catanzaro 21

    Nice to see Serie C club Chieti with a decent team in this competition. By contrast, Como had to drop its team out of the competition in January.
  16. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    Sort of lost in the hubbub of European play, the Pope's funeral, etc etc this week was the second leg of the Primavera Coppa Italia final which was played on Wednesday. Lecce held Milan to a scoreless draw and therefore won the trophy, based on their 2-0 win in the first leg. Lecce dispatched Juventus in the semifinals in similar fashion, winning 3-1 at home and then getting a 1-1 draw in Turin.

    It's the fourth straight year that Lecce's Primavera club has won major honors having won the Coppa previously in 2001-2 and being league champions the past two years. They must be doing something right at that club - nice to see.
  17. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    This weekend is the final round of games in the regular Primavera schedule. The top 4 teams in each group will then play in the Primavera playoffs to determine the league champion. These are the teams that have clinched playoff berths:

    Group A - Juventus, Atalanta, Cagliari, Parma
    Group B - Inter, Milan, Bologna, Verona
    Group C - Roma
    Group D - Lecce, Bari, Palermo

    In Group D, Messina is in 4th place but could be overtaken by Catania or Reggina for the final spot.

    In Group C, things are even tighter. Ternana sits in second place on 41 points but has no games remaining. Tiny Chieti is tied with Lazio and Empoli on 40 points. 3 of those 4 teams will qualify.

    Relevant matches:
    Empoli vs Chieti
    Perugia vs Lazio
    Palermo vs Messina
    Reggina vs Benevento
    Catania vs Crotone
  18. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    The scores of those matches:

    Empoli 1 Chieti 0
    Perugia 3 Lazio 1

    Empoli, Ternana - and Perugia! (I somehow missed that possibility) - qualify for the final 3 playoff spots in group C. Tough blow for Lazio - I remember they had started the season so well. And I would've liked to see Chieti - one of the handful of Serie C clubs with a team in this division - make the playoffs.

    In Group D, Messina won their game meaning the other teams were helpless to catch them for the final berth.

    The playoffs get under way this Saturday with the first of 8 home-and-home matchups. I haven't seen the pairings. After that, there is a final stage where all 8 teams play at one site in a single-game knockout format.
  19. sardus_pater

    sardus_pater Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Sardinia Italy EU
    Cagliari Calcio
    Nat'l Team:
    Cagliari will play lecce and that it's highly unfortunate given they are the champions (2 times) - winning also coppa italia and supercoppa this year - and the final stage will be in Lecce.

    We will try but it's almost mission impossible.

    Anyway good job, boys.
  20. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    Here are the full matchups (home team in first leg listed first):

    Parma vs Roma
    Ternana vs Bari
    Palermo vs Inter
    Verona vs Juventus
    Cagliari vs Lecce
    Perugia vs Milan
    Messina vs Empoli
    Bologna vs Atalanta

    All are 1st vs 4th or 2nd vs 3rd, but they randomly selected the matchups within that restriction (and teams don't play within their group).
  21. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    Well, Cagliari did manage to beat Lecce in the first leg at home. Here are all the results from the weekend:

    Bologna 0 Atalanta 3
    Cagliari 1 Lecce 0
    Messina 1 Empoli 1
    Palermo 1 Inter 2
    Parma 1 Roma 1
    Perugia 1 Milan 0
    Ternana 1 Bari 0
    Verona 1 Juventus 4
  22. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    The Lecce-Cagliari return leg will be shown live on RAI Sport Satellite Saturday at 9 am Eastern US time.
  23. Le Zebre

    Le Zebre Member

    May 10, 2005
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    damn, is it possible for ONE team from Calabria to do something. :(
  24. sardus_pater

    sardus_pater Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Sardinia Italy EU
    Cagliari Calcio
    Nat'l Team:
    Cagliari did advance vs lecce with a surprising away win (1-2). :)

    Good job, boys.
  25. SueB

    SueB New Member

    Mar 23, 1999
    Waterbury, VT
    Congratulations to Cagliari on the upset. I tried to tune into to the game but RAI Sport Satellite is currently in a state of dysfunction, at least on my computer. :( Here are all the second-leg results:-

    Atalanta 1 Bologna 0 (4-0 agg)
    Bari 2 Ternana 0 (2-1)
    Empoli 0 Messina 0 (1-1, Empoli advances)
    Inter 4 Palermo 1 (6-2)
    Juventus 2 Verona 0 (6-1)
    Lecce 1 Cagliari 2 (1-3)
    Milan 4 Perugia 0 (4-1)
    Roma 4 Parma 1 (5-2)

    Not sure if Empoli won on away goals or by finishing 2nd in their group to Messina's 3rd. Either way, Atalanta, Bari, Empoli, Inter, Juventus, Cagliari, Milan and Roma advance to the final phase which takes place June 2-9 in several locations near Lecce, with the final in Lecce's Via del Mare Stadium (I guess they REALLY didn't expect Lecce to get ko'd so soon!).

    The draw takes place this Friday, and all the games will be shown on RAI Sport Satellite.

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