Post-match: The Post Presidency :: Trump Faces The Music Thread

Yeah, I did realise that. I was just talking about Garland.

 

And this right here points to Garland’s lack of character. He never should have accepted the role. Once it became clear that there were potential GOP coconspirators..at a minimum he should have recused and appointed a special counsel almost immediately. He couldn’t be seen as objective…as any pursuit of GOP politicians would automatically be perceived as retribution.


He deserves every bit of how history will judge him.

 

Thing is, it is only difficult the first time... After that it is standard practice.

And it certainly appears that the voters basically approved of the overthrow...

 

Price of Eggs bro!!

The illiteracy of the public benefits the racist. Justice of America so we can never forget the role race and religion play in everything.

We are here now. I am of the belief we need 8 years of Trump before things get better. The hurt and suffering has to come home to those who have been immune, then and only then will there be change. Covid was not enough and treated like an outlier.

 

Regarding the issue of when the GOP went full-on 'Let's do away with this democracy nonsense', it's possible to make the argument that happened some years back and everyone's been too slow, (maybe too comfortable in their certainties as you mention), to do anything about it.

Voter wait times in poorer areas, the citizens united decisions, huge super-pacs, etc. etc... if you compare that to almost ANY other democracy it looks decidedly dodgy.

So I don't really see it as 'suspending civil liberties' so much as actually enforcing them. IOW putting things back to the way it's meant to operate.

When garland was refused by the GOP, for instance, the democrats should have created a constitutional crisis at THAT point... not wait until the court has been completely nobbled and THEN start worrying about it.

 

No, I understand what you're saying and I agree it's hard to think of specifics but, for me, we just have to ask ourselves what do we think this new woman, Bondi will do given the chance.

Obviously it's hard for me because I know sod-all about US law, (particularly in relation to constitutional law), but let's just do a thought experiment as to how Trump would have reacted if Biden had said what Trump said on Jan 6th and a mob of his supporters had attacked the capital like that. I don't know but I tend to think he might have arrested some of the ringleaders when he got the reins of power, possibly even including Biden himself. I think he'd have instituted a state of emergency directly he came into office and have replaced whoever wouldn't go along with what he was doing, signing a blizzard of executive orders saying that these people had been shown to be domestic terrorists. He then might have used the various existing anti-terror laws to lock up various people while the investigation was going on and used the DOJ to roll various small-fry against some of the bigger ones, using threats of long jail sentences against them to obtain convictions of people like Biden.

Now is any of that legal or within the strictures of the constitution? Well, like I say, I'm no expert but I wouldn't have thought so.

Do you think Trump cares? Do you think he'll care now?

This is the issue.

IIRC, you said before that some woman, (forget the name but it was someone for whom jitty had respect), had stated that 'Garland didn't do a ton wrong'. The thing is that sentence still works if you miss off the last word... THAT'S the problem.

In the present situation you don't need people who just do the bare minimum. You need an attack dog.

 

Well, I've been seeing stuff on Twitter that Jack Smith will release some evidence gathered in his investigations. If Merricks so kind to et the proles see it.

For Jan 6th for instance, how closely were TrumpCo and outside Wingnut agitators working in cahoots? I don't think that's been probed too deeply and AFAIK the DOJ hasn't commented on it.

 

This was an interesting discussion on Pod Save America with Jon Lovett and a guy called 'Hasan Piker' who's described as a 'progressive streamer'.



I'm only part the way through it and It is quite long but it's been thought provoking thus far.

They disagree at some points, including around the issue of how people like Kirsten Sinema and Joe Manchin should have been treated. Quite how realistic Piker's ideas were about threatening guys like Manchin would have been... not very would be my guess but there we are.

At one point Lovett asks 'So you want the president to politicise the [legal] agencies and use them to go after people'. I must admit, my immediate reactions was, isn't that what they're being accused of anyway?

 

if it were Trump, it wouldn't matter... he'd just accuse them of it anyway. In any event I seem to remember there WAS some evidence some of the reps were helping the people who later turned up.


Edit: Here yer go...

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/g...ed-in-jan-6-protest-planning-new-report-shows

 

Yeah, the usual suspects. Trump lawyers game planned the cockamamie scheme and the Congresscritters helped carry it out. Of course, they were barely investigated (maybe the Smith report will show otherwise) and paid no price whatsoever for crimes a bazillion times worse than Watergate.

The kicker is, bothsides now don't trust the DOJ. One for "lawfare" against Cheeto Benito and Libs for Merrick slow-walking a coup attempt investigation and giving us Trump 2.0.

Yamiche Alcindor:

And you are, of course, talking about the House select committee investigating the January 6 attack.

And I want to ask you about the multiple lawmakers that you write about in your article. Who were the lawmakers talking to organizers, and what were they saying?

Hunter Walker:

So, both of my sources said they participated in — quote, unquote — "dozens of briefings" with Republican members of Congress and their staff. That included Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, Paul Gosar, Mo Brooks, Madison Cawthorn, and Louie Gohmert.

And we have already had some indications that these members were involved in the efforts to overturn the election. They spoke at the events at the Ellipse. They were billed as speakers at this wild protest. Gosar headlined a Stop the Steal rally in Arizona.

But what they specifically described was these members sort of strategizing to help them pick state locations for protests that would target persuadable senators to join the objection. And they were also going back and forth trading — quote, unquote — "evidence" of supposed election fraud.

 

And I know I've said this before but it's worth reiterating... that all happened 4 years ago and we're only NOW just asking the question, 'Will the guy who's investigated it actually, y'know, show some evidence'?

 

I read something on wikipedia that said that Executive orders weren't actually covered in the constitution anyway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_order

...

Basis in the United States Constitution

The United States Constitution does not have a provision that explicitly permits the use of executive orders. Article II, Section 1, Clause 1 of the Constitution simply states: "The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America." Sections 2 and 3 describe the various powers and duties of the president, including "He shall take care that the Laws be faithfully executed".[4]​

Just reading that wiki entry it does seem like that whole area is more by custom and practice and several decision have been rescinded over the years for various so, to me, it looks like it's not quite as 'set in stone' as I would have thought.

I dunno... I can't help thinking that if the dems realised they were at war, (which they kinda are with Putin and his fellow travellers in the GOP), they might have realised the urgency more and not pussy-footed around quite as much.

 

I don't think a lot of them are realizing it even now - at least not to the true extent of it.

 

The most hopeful interpretation of the situation is that the GOP will concentrate on just doing garden-variety corruption and straight up criminal shit and not go full on fascist but with Trump at the helm and some of the true believers in situ, it doesn't look hopeful, does it.