The Philadelphia Union Thread

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by ussoccer97531, Mar 21, 2021.

  1. no exit

    no exit Member

    DC United
    United States
    Nov 20, 2019
    Philly apparently trading for MTL's Joaquin Torres, which is I presume bad news for Sullivan, and something I disapprove of.
     
  2. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    The Philly fans on r/mls assume that he will still get lots of time as Curtain tends to substitute up a lot, but I agree with you.
     
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  3. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    They also do need to plan for Sullivan being gone a lot with the US U20s...............................
     
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  4. Sup Bro

    Sup Bro Member+

    Oct 26, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hope so, but I’ll believe it when I see it. They stick to a (winning) philosophy that just doesn’t include a deep bench.

    Like you said - 14 players got > 1,000 minutes regular season minutes in 2022, and 13 players reached that benchmark in the 2021 regular season. If you include all competitions in those years…you still have 14 players > 1,000 minutes in 2022 and 13 players in 2021 (including 6 champions league games!).

    I don’t expect Curtain to start making hockey line changes in the 60th minute. The key for the young guys is to earn a starting 11 place like McGlynn did…which is a very tall task.
     
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  5. no exit

    no exit Member

    DC United
    United States
    Nov 20, 2019
    Well, sure, but my point is more-or-less that approx 14 players getting 1000 mins still means you can get a young guy, maybe two, quite a bit of minutes. For example last year McGlynn got that share of minutes, and played really well. It might be less than (or not the specific players that) members of this forum would like, but that's not quite the same as being inhospitable to development.
     
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  6. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Last year, attacking backups for Philly got 1,194 (Burke), 608 (Santos), 432 (Paxten), 245 (Quinn) and 108 (Donovan) minutes in total across mostly three positions (Sullivan played a decent amount of 8 IIRC).

    Torres is likely to get most of the backup minutes to Gazdag and some of the attacker, but there is room at that striker spot for either him or Donovan to grab the "speedy, straight ahead" backup striker role. Torres is much more of a paced, ball control guy.
     
  7. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are you trying to tell me Sullivan just hasn't earned minutes over the likes of mighty Chris Donovan (like in MLS Cup Final), in spite of scoring or assisting almost every other game in his young career, having a high work-rate, & crushing it in practice like the beep test?

    He's really got to get out of there, and they have to facilitate it, unless they want to tank his transfer value. It's the highest it's going to be, if this keeps up. Playing him at the (backup) 10 isn't a proper usage of his talent either. That's like his 5th best position.
     
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  8. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    He will score another 4-5 goals in May, and restore the value. Fortunately he is an attacking player with amazing productivity, and will benefit from the WC more than anyone else. McGlynn, and especially Craig aren't that lucky.
     
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  9. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Sullivan............to me............is somebody who'll quickly be gone. Could evebn be this summer window. He'll be sold like Aaronson.

    This is the same thing that FCD went thru. Quality guys were promoted to the first team, but then sold. Hard to maintain any momentum as a club that way. The money you get for their sales is great, but then you HAVE TO USE IT in the transfer market for it to have value.

    So if you want to have a semi-long term plan, you have to bring in guys like Joaqin Torres.
    And Philly has done an absolutely remarkable job bringing guys in that band, who aren't particularly expensive, but end up contributing greatly to winning.

    This here is an interesting rumor that would benefit Brandon Craig.
     
  10. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That requires him being healthy at the right time. It's not a given. If he's not available then, he's got to make a midseason or postseason transfer as a 19 year old w/ few pro minutes and no special boost. Paxten's bro paved the way. Quinn is the trailblazer in his family.
     
  11. no exit

    no exit Member

    DC United
    United States
    Nov 20, 2019
    Other potential moves with relevance to Craig:
     
  12. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    If I'm Brandon Craig, I'm pretty happy that my competition for playing time is Damion Lowe. Career journeyman.

    That's an insurance signing, not a "sure-fire starter" signing.
     
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  13. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Particularly if Glesnes is dealt.
     
  14. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    This is vomiticious. And even though, according to Tom Selleck's own depth chart Sullivan's no higher than 3rd at any spot, in the replies he tries to defend that Quinn should stay because they play a lot of games. Even as that may be, that would benefit the #2's. So maybe they up his minutes from a whopping 245, back to what it was when he was a rook, which was a whole 500.

    Get out, and get out now. Don't wait until you sit for another season, spinning your wheels, and your value goes down further as a 19-20 yr old, instead of 18-19. At a point, European clubs don't consider you a prospect anymore. They need you to excel in your inferior domestic league 1st.

    He definitely has to leave after the u-20 WC, and they have to allow it. So far, they've done him dirty.
     
  15. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    I don't get it at all. Why would they mess with a soccer family where older brother might go for approximately the same amount as Paxten, and younger one might be the most valuable asset in the whole US youth system? Maybe there is some agreement to sell him for a reasonable predetermined price as soon as an offer comes?
     
  16. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There may well be a decision to wait for the u-20 WC and then sell him. But how they're benefiting anyone involved by playing Donovan over him in the finale, then burying him on the depth chart, while holding him hostage for this period, I do not know. Then they'd be banking on him not suffering an untimely injury, in training, & whatever minutes he does get.
     
  17. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh FFS stop with the hyperbole already. You said the same stuff about Paxten....an offer came in and they sold him. If some Euro team offers Philly $4M for Quinn they'll take it. It's likely safe to say that an offer like that has not come in. Do you want him to end up Anthony Fontana riding the pine in Italy's Serie B???

    Some of ya'll act like Ernst Tanner isn't good at his job or youth development......
     
  18. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The ironic thing is, you're saying I'm resorting to hyperbole, when I wasn't nearly as bent out of shape about Paxten's situation (I think you just register all criticism at unacceptable levels as a fanatic), because he played significantly more, while not showing as much early. I considered it as a mistake, to a degree, which it still was. 4.5 is measly comparatively. They got almost 13m in the end for Brenden. That's what you can get for playing a guy actually. He didn't have to be part of the XI, and I don't think he should have been. But he could have been in a rotation & more of a super-sub.

    If so, that's partly their fault for doing things like playing a lower-level prospect in Chris Donovan over him in MLS Cup Final. What's your and their excuse for that, huh? And how do you figure, then, we haven't earned the right to be skeptical about this?

    In Paxten's case, to even get a palatable move, eventually, he could draft off his brother's name. Quinn can't do that, unless they've seen his lil bro's youtube highlights, and that means they want to get inroads on the packaged deal (that's just a joke fyi).

    If they want to up Quinn's value, they could, ya know, pencil him in as a key bench player and rotational guy, then see if he could earn more (or less) of a role w/ his performances. Instead of putting him 3rd in the depth chart at his 5th best position. How does doing that for another year help you get a higher transfer fee exactly?! Really putting all the eggs in the basket of Mikey Varas doing part of their job & Quinn staying healthy.

    That came after a benching, value tanking, & development stunting. It's not the point you think it is. Quite the opposite.

    Some of y'all act like because you're generally good at your job you're then God. The mortals shouldn't critique you, regardless of the evidence.
     
  19. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not ironic at all. We're talking professional sports here. The main goal for professional sports teams is to win. It's not to solely development talent for their country's national Team. Players have yo earn playing time. The GM/SD/TD's job is to bring in better players.

    There's no guarantee that if Sullivan goes to another team he's going to get more playing time. Or that the technical staff/manager isn't going to bring in better players.

    Paxten's move was because of his brother? That's hilarious. You of all posters around here ought to know Paxten has always been the more highly touted of the two Arronsons. They are different players, with different skill sets.

    Simply giving a young player minutes isn't going to magically up their value. That player has to take advantage of the opportunity. That's not the team's depth chart, that's Tom Bogert's depth chart.....

    As for Fontana, it is exactly pertinent to here. They gave him chances at the 10 and he didn't take advantage of them. He didn't improve enough, and they found better options. He felt he deserved more playing time, left on a free....and hasn't gotten more playing time.
     
  20. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Because now they have a quality backup for a Shield and Cup contending team in a year in which they very possibly play 50 games?

    I'm wait and see on Quinn. At first I thought this was unfair, and then I did the math -- there's over 2,000 backup attacking minutes gone from last year's roster, which stayed very healthy.

    They have CCL + Leagues Cup extra this year, in terms of year over year matches. Plus all three starting attackers were healthy.

    So I think there may be a lot of minutes there for Quinn.
     
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  21. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    I don't believe that he is MLS back up level anymore. He is so much better than someone like Cowell, that's not even funny. And those 2,000 minutes will be split wit Torres. Not good.
     
  22. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    If he's that good, why wouldn't he play more?

    Curtain may not give out minutes on charity, but I don't think there's a lot of situations of a player clearly within the talent range not getting a shot.

    We'll see.

    Torres is a decent player, but he's not an unbeatable superstar. And his style isn't nearly as direct as Sullivan's ... and Philly's. Most of those backup minutes came at striker, and Sullivan fits what Philly did last year much better than Torres, who is more Ilsinho than Burke or Santos.
     
  23. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Philly is going for the MLS cup. It wasn't happening when Brenden was getting his minutes, neither Paxten nor Sullivan were playing last year, Paxten got out, and now he is with the MNT. Sullivan could be there as well, and now he would get his 300 minutes. I'm optimistic though, and believe there is an agreement between Philly and Sullivan family, and he will be sold in August.
     
  24. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #999 jaykoz3, Jan 25, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2023
    Minor quibble....Philly is going for ALL of the available Silverware this season. Curtin and Tanner have said they are going to go for everything: CCL, USOC, Supporter's Shield, Leagues Cup and MLS Cup. They're building depth so they have little drop off when they rotate lineups with all of the fixture congestion. They're also going to use other formations throughout the season. They aren't going to play the narrow 4-4-2 diamond exclusively like in season's past.

    Isn't this what we want for the young players???? Competition for places??? Competitive training environments? Teams that take ALL competitions seriously? Isn't this the EXACT reasons USMNT fanpeople want the youngsters to go overseas??? So they have to EARN their minutes by competing against better players in training day in and day out???

    Maybe Aaronson has succeeded so quickly because of this type of environment? He was prepared for what he was going to experience, because he'd already been in that type of environment?
     
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  25. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    MLS rosters are 30 players deep. EVERY young player has competition for playing time. I don't get the consternation here. None of these players that Philly is bringing in are sure-fire starters. Are people mistaking Tom Bogert's depth chart for reality?

    Philly had to bring in players. Why? Because they have to plan for Sullivan, Craig, McGlynn, etc. being gone with USYNTs for extended periods this spring.

    Do people remember when FCD released Pomykal, Servania, and Cerrillo to the US U20s for the U20WC at the same time................and could barely field a midfield for MLS matches? That's what you need to avoid if you're gunning for the SS. Every point counts.

    People used to criticize FCD for the same thing. How dare FCD bring in an Argentine RB!!!? He's blocking Reggie Cannon! Well.................did people expect FCD to only have 18 year old Reggie Cannon as a right back option?
     
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