The Philadelphia Union Thread

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by ussoccer97531, Mar 21, 2021.

  1. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    We heard the same nonsense about FCD and opportunities for its young players for years and years and years.

    The top priorities for any MLS organization are to win games/trophies and be profitable businesses.
    The integration of young players can help in both respects.
    HOWEVER, any MLS coach is going to go with the players they think can best achieve results.
    If you play lots of kids and don't win, then you're out of a job (see Luchi Gonzalez in Dallas).

    No coach is going to start kids for the sake of starting kids.
    No coach is going to replace veterans that are playing well just because they want to give kids experience. No coach is going to use kids for the sake of USMNT/USYNTs. Their first thought when waking up in the morning should be "which players give me the best chance of winning today's game." If that's the kids, great. It can be the kids like Pepi. But often it isn't.

    Of course, I think its possible that McGlynn, Aaronson, and Sullivan won't be with Philly at this time next year.
    So if you don't use them now...............you won't end up using them. They'll be gone. (See Reynolds, Tessmann, Richards, and others in Dallas. Very few or no first team appearances).
     
  2. Ray Shoesmith

    Ray Shoesmith Member+

    Valencia
    United States
    Nov 14, 2021
    Also, how are Tess and Reynolds doing? Got minutes and took off. How about Che? Played quick, gone and not ready.

    Earning minutes in a stable competitive environment actually helps players. Dallas can be used as an example of giving young ups minutes, hype, leave and they ain’t ready recently.

    Always amused how to people who criticize the most, fall apart when they are criticized.

    Shows the profile well. Just kids sitting at home playing grown up who have absolutely no real world experience or ability. People who have some of these abilities/experiences don’t respond like the others do for a reason.

    We don’t fall apart over criticism. The profile is always the same.
     
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  3. bballshawn

    bballshawn Member+

    Feb 5, 2014
    Delaware
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Ehhh again I use Bayern and Borussia Dortmund as prime examples. They both will usurp their veterans and sell them if a young promising playing with higher upside comes through the ranks. How many times have BVB benched a veteran to see if a younger player will pan out?

    The other thing is irregardless of form of the veterans the young players still have to "wait their turn." Then when the coach is forced to play the young player and he excels we praise the coach for playing youth :rolleyes:
     
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  4. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    The Dallas kids wanted to leave.

    The dream of these elite USYNTs is to go to Europe as soon as possible.

    Players like Chris Richards and Justin Che only signed with Dallas in the first place with that pathway in mind.

    Same for a kid like Caden Clark with NYRB. Caden only signed with that organization with the Salzburg/Leipzig pathway in mind.

    I don't know the particular stories of these Philly kids. But if a club offers big bucks for them, like Chelsea just did for Slonina................they'll want to go. And they'll be gone. They'll be gone by this time next year. Whether that's the right opportunity for them, is another issue. And once gone, that's not a concern of the selling club.

    That's the big challenge that teams like Dallas who have focused on youth development have faced. You have to just keep the assembly line moving and keep the assembly line moving. Sell, sell, sell just like Boca Juniors or Dinamo Zagreb or Anderlecht. It never ends.
     
  5. bballshawn

    bballshawn Member+

    Feb 5, 2014
    Delaware
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    I'm not even advocating Curtin bench Gazdag, Uhre, or Caranza but you gotta rotate more game by game.
     
  6. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the difference is Dortmund does it at the beginning of the year. I doubt they very often move out a veteran player who'd doing well in favor of a possibly better young player 2/3's of the way through a season that is going very well. Now I have seen the younger player overtake them during seasons but move-outs usually only happen before the season. In fact I think Dortmund names three guys they wanted to move on from a few weeks ago. Philly has a chance to win a Supporter's Shield and MLS Cup. They aren't going to drop those dreams and force a move with a player who's doing well right now. They may in the off season though. Still a player could force their way into minutes / starts just no clear outs.
     
  7. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I mean...................Philly is on a 5 game winning streak. Some of those games are absolute demolitions. 7-0 over DCU. 6-0 over Houston. They're not going to make a change now for the sake of making a change.

    This isn't like FCD in 2017. Pareja was playing a lot of veterans and the team was just in a downward trajectory from 2016. People on these boards were screaming for the young players like Cannon to get more time (I wasn't actually one of them). Then OK.............its fine to demand the coaching staff make a change. There's at least evidence that a change is needed.

    But saying Quinn Sullivan or Paxten Aaronson should get more time as the team is coming off a 6-0 win? Come on. What are we talking about here? They're in the rotation, and that's just going to have to be good enough for now.

    One thing that's true is its hard for their transfer value to increase if they're not playing. You're not getting Pepi or Slonina money for a guy that isn't playing. So there's that......................
     
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  8. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    I have no idea what the reason is, but Philly seems to have gotten much better buy-in from their young players than FCD. The philly guys seem eager and willing to spend time in the organization without being in such a hurry to move on. Unfortunately for FCD, it seems like a lot of their products have had an eye on the door even before contributing anything to the first team.
     
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  9. bballshawn

    bballshawn Member+

    Feb 5, 2014
    Delaware
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    If I recall correctly, BVB started Pulisic vs Leverkusen in the middle of a title race.
     
  10. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #685 Clint Eastwood, Aug 2, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2022
    When it comes to FCD and its approach to young players...................the turning point was losing Weston McKennie for nothing.
    So yes, they signed a whole bunch of young players that already had one eye on Europe.
    But you'd rather have them for a short period, with a nice transfer fee (and sell on percentage/fee), than lose them for nothing.

    [By the way, FCD got yet another big pile of cash recently with the Richards sale to Crystal Palace. 40% of that fee.]

    Worth noting that FCD actually has two of the most impactful homegrown players in the league right now. Ferreira and Pomykal. Servania and Cerrillo are also playing. So they're getting lots of minutes from homegrowns, just not in the thread-eligible age group.

    So yes, maybe Philly will lose some of these players to Euro sales.
    Not maybe..............they will lose these players to Euro sales.
    Maybe Harriel (or somebody) stays and has longer-term impact with the first team.
    Just like there are such players at Anderlecht, Boca Juniors, and Dinamo Zagreb too. Not every young academy product at those clubs goes to "bigger leagues" in Europe. Some stay, and actually become club legends. All I'm saying is that its impossible to prevent a kid like Gabriel Slonina from moving on, when a team such as Chelsea (or Madrid) makes a big bid. What is that messaging like? Sorry, but we're going to turn down this life-altering offer for you. We have an important USOC game against El Paso Locomotive coming up!!!

    When it comes to Aaronson, McGlynn, and Sullivan I bet performance at the U20 World Cup determines a lot with regards to the kinds of Euro clubs that'll be interested. It wouldn't shock me at all for a club like Dortmund to make a move for Sullivan.
     
  11. Kombucha

    Kombucha Member+

    Jul 1, 2016
    Club:
    --other--
    Aaronson is playing a regular role.

    In July - 30, 15, 63 (start), 22, 13 in their 5 games. 143 minutes.

    Sullivan not as much, but in the rotation.

    In July - 17, 15, 0, 6, 4

    Also have played NEXT minutes in July. 90 for Aaronson and 270 for Sullivan.

    It is absurd to think that Philly should drop their key players that are playing at a high level right now. I think the main quibble could be that the Union don't rotate enough and that they should rotate more down the stretch as the fixtures get a bit more congested. Plus they didn't rotate much at all in first half of the season.
     
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  12. MuchoTakeItEasy

    MuchoTakeItEasy Member+

    LAFC
    United States
    May 16, 2015
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Teams aren't rotating as much this year because there are fewer midweek games. Teams have been playing every 3 days for the last two years and finally have some relief
     
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  13. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    They did for McGlynn and look what happened. No reason to think if they did for Aaronson and Sullivan the results wouldn't be similar. The last consistent run of game time Aaronson and Sullivan got they put up huge totals.

    Most MLS players have low ceilings. They play in MLS for a reason. If these guys were so good they wouldn't be in MLS at their age. If these four kids are playing in MLS when they are in their mid 20's I don't think many will care about their playing time. There have been two teenagers that were produced in MLS academies sold for 15M+ the last six months. Are these three/four kids not of a similar level? I think most believe they are, which is why we want to see them get their chance to play.

    This idea that they'd be dropped inverts how this should've went. If these players were used more often at the beginning of the season when there would've been a chance for competition for spots, there's a good chance the academy kids would've earned these spots and the terms of the discussion would be completely different.

    This is not only coming up from scratch now. Many of us thought they deserved regular roles before the season started. That they haven't gotten these roles this season that were discussed, that its more than halfway through the season, and that they also showed what they can do in regular playing time for USYNT's is why the discussion is being revived.
     
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  14. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Philly kids look like they have more buy in because they all went to High School together at the Union's Youth Academy, YSC. Many of them lived together. They've been playing together and going to class for years now. They've been in a completely immersive setting/structure for most of their teenage lives now. They played on Union Academy teams, played together for Union II, youth national teams and now the Philadelphia Union MLS first team.

    Huge numbers huh? Care to actually provide said HUGE numbers???

    Since you didn't....

    Sullivan: in 531 minutes in 2021 he scored two goals and had one assist. 21 GP 4 GS. This season he's played 196 minutes with one goal. 1 GS

    Aaronson: in 591 minutes in 2021 he scored 3 goals. 14 GP 5GS. This season he's played 328 minutes in 14 GP 2 GS

    McGlynn: In 633 minutes played in 2021 he had 1 assist. 19 GP 7 GS. This season he's played 418 minutes with one goal and one assist. 12 GP 3 GS

    Okay so here's the thing.....competition for spots starts before and during preseason. If the kids were outperforming the players ahead of them on the depth chart during this phase of the season they'd have gotten more time early on in the 2022 regular season. See Nathan Harriel as an example. He beat out M'Baizo by performing better in training and during the opportunities he got in league play. He won the job. M'Baizo has now won it back.

    Do you know who also showed out against kids his own age? Freddy Adu. Sure it's nice that the Union kids performed well with the U20 Nats. They now have to do that at a consistent level against seasoned professionals. It's that simple. McGlynn has played the best out of the youngsters thus far this season in MLS play. Just because a bunch of us Soccer Nerfs on the internet feel players DESERVE roles....,,,,that's just not based in reality. Pro Sports isn't American Idol......fans in the stands or on the internet don't get a say in who plays.
     
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  15. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    The last consistent run of games Aaronson and Sullivan got was with the US U-20's. They were the two best offensive players at the tournament. Thats what I was referring to.
     
  16. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    Do you know much about McGlynn's youth career? I was at YSC in 2014 for a Horst Wein seminar. For the demo players, they were using a few 10 year olds who trained regularly there. Some were in the Union organization, but not all.

    One kid especially caught my eye, and apparently Horst liked him too because he made a point to have a conversation with the boy and his dad after the final session. I eavesdropped, and, as I understood it, the kid was playing with a smaller club and training some at YSC. The Union wanted him but the family was not sure what they were going to do (or at least at what point they were going to ramp up the boy's potential career in the game). I've been curious about the kid ever since and had an eye out for a "Mikey" with Philly because that is what I thought I heard his name was.

    Horst's advice was kind of predictable, but it was also interesting to hear him give it. He told the boy and his dad to avoid moving to a big club. He basically advised them to play as much informally and for his local club as possible because a super structured environment could potentially ruin a young player. Anyway, could that have been Jack McGlynn?
     
  17. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    McGlynn was at BW Gottschee in NY until he was 16. He was already being called into USYNT camps before he ever got to Philly, so while I wouldn't say they don't deserve credit, I think they deserve more credit for Aaronson, Sullivan, and Craig. McGlynn supposedly grew a few inches from late 2019 to early 2020. He wasn't too undersized before, but it's not hard to see why a guy who was slightly undersized or average height with no speed would be more successful as he grew taller. I saw him play a few times before then, and I didn't think he was that good. I started noticing him more during that late 2019-early 2020 span as an underrated player, and he really broke out during the 2020 USL season. I thought he was the best of the four that season for that team.

    It also should be said that McGlynn's older brother (plays in USL for Hartford) is 6'4. Jack may not be done growing. If this guy ends up being 6'4 or close to it, he could end up being what everyone thought Keaton Parks (a pretty good MLS player) was going to become at the peak of his hype.
     
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  18. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I don't think anybody questions the quality of Aaronson, Sullivan, etc.

    Its just hard to bench the guys that are crushing it right now in favor of those two.

    By the way, they did sign a central midfielder yesterday. Senior Kenyan international, that probably will be competition for McGlynn.
    So we can talk about the fact that they're dumping and selling certain guys. They're going to replace them with others.
    They'll keep signing competition for playing time.
     
  19. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's a potential replacement for Martinez, and also cover at CB. So he'll be competition for Flach, not McGlynn.
     
  20. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    All I'm implying is that there will ALWAYS be competition for playing time.
    If these kids go to Europe, the same thing will happen there.

    And if the team is performing well, coaches sometimes don't change. Even if the player sitting on the bench is perceived as being the "better player." The team wining is the number one priority. If Chelsea is winning and Pulisic is coming off the bench, then Pulisic will just continue coming off the bench. That's just the way it works.
     
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  21. Ray Shoesmith

    Ray Shoesmith Member+

    Valencia
    United States
    Nov 14, 2021
    No, no, no.

    Rip up what is working, what is successful, for the clueless who rant on the internet.
     
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  22. terrywilson

    terrywilson Member

    May 3, 1999
    Atlanta Ga.
    McGlynn as a 6'4 CD with midfielder ball skills & a world class left foot, He'll be in Europe before he's 20.
     
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  23. Thundering165

    Thundering165 Member+

    North Carolina FC
    United States
    May 1, 2017
    Raleigh
    McGlynn is one of my favorite young players and has a couple of advantages over Parks at the same stage (lefty, much better ball striking) but he’s got a ways to go before he gets to that level.

    By possession value added Parks is one of the two or three best midfielders in MLS. He’s also a very good defensive player. McGlynn needs to grow in terms of vision, optimal decision making, and defending.

    Parks is an underrated athlete while McGlynn is genuinely one of the slower players in the league.
     
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  24. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Parks has just had a couple of really ill-timed injuries.

    And of course, he's from Dallas. We don't need to have a whole national team from Dallas.
     
  25. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I like Parks also. Wasn’t a slight. I remember when he was breaking through at Benfica all of us thought he was good enough for that level and would become an immediate fixture in the USMNT. Then Benfica stopped playing him, and it was the usual pattern we see out of Portuguese clubs with American players. It’s a good idea, but it never seems to work out for young Americans in that league. I think he’s proven with NYCFC that he could easily be playing for Benfica now as a starter, so the investment likely would’ve paid off for them if they had continued to play him.
     

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