I think it was the 2008 team that went to Argentina 2 yrs ago with LeBlanc, Wessah, Murphy, and alot of really good players, they posted all 8 of their short games with only 7 players aside. Alot of really good individual skill and they played the small sided games as well under the description of a possession style. I liked Kleberson's teaching but you may be onto something. He's Brazilian and I thought he was teaching the Brazilian style. But the angles and style in short sided on small fields doesn't really translate to large fields with more players. The style can be considered possession in one context but less so with larger field.
Those games are all still online: https://www.youtube.com/c/SilverbackCordoba2008/videos Yes, it was the 08s. They did a few Iber Cups in Spain and Brazil. Cavan Sullivan went on one of those trips as a 9 or 10 year old and scored one of the most amazing goals I've seen.. I'll have to find it again.
It isn’t just the 08 team, it’s academy wide unfortunately. It has its pro’s that kids will transition pretty easily from each age group to eventually the first team. This is why you see so many kids get minutes in MLS and do well. What comes at a cost is that if you are a possession oriented player (Diego Lopez) or a winger (Bajung Darboe) then you may not have long term success in their current system and fit the desired profiles. I also wonder how the technical development of the younger players will go since the style of play changed but this won’t start to have effects until at least the 07’s and older start hitting first team ages. But we can’t really critique Philly’s ways currently as they are getting it done in regards to youth national team players, senior national team players, players going to Europe, and academy players breaking into the first team.
I actually think this is a good thing and shows a maturation in MLS at the club and player level. This only becomes problematic if MLS doesn't get rid of the ridiculous HG territories. This happens all around the world at every club, in every league. Some clubs have an ingrained club wide tactical philosophy, and some clubs play the way the current first team manager wants to. Bottom line is player profiles are becoming more and more important based on the way a certain team or club wants to play. There are countless players like Diego Lopez that are quality players that just don't fit into the way their club wants to play. He isn't the best example since he is from San Diego originally, but this becomes problematic if he were from Philly and essentially can't move to a club that values his individual style of play. Just because he doesn't fit the style of his current club doesn't mean he isn't a good player or wouldn't fit perfectly in a different club. He plays a position that can have two distinct characteristics and can cause issues if he is not in the right environment. Some clubs (even Berhalter) want that destroyer type deep midfielder that covers tons of ground and tackles all over the field. Some others want a hub type player that is central to a possession based philosophy and is tasked with dictating the pace and flow of their team. Agreeing to part ways with a 16 year old because the two styles don't match up is a step in the right direction, as long as they let him leave with no strings attached. The same can be said for strikers (hold up, false strikers, in behind type strikers), outside backs (attacking or defending profiles) and even GK's if the manager wants to play out of the back.
He’s not going to throw any of them under the bus, so I’m not sure it means too much, but it’s something. I’m wondering why Sorenson wasn’t mentioned though. Curtin on young players: "Jack [McGlynn] has been one of our best players in training, Quinn [Sullivan] has been a man possessed on the field, Paxten [Aaronson] has looked strong. Nathan Harriel has gotten more comfortable. Brandan Craig has taken a big step forward." #DOOP— Larry Henry Jr (@lhenry019) January 20, 2022
🚨 HOMEGROWN SIGNING 🚨Philadelphia Union have officially signed defender Anton Sorenson.📝👉 https://t.co/8w5tdLPIAy#DOOP pic.twitter.com/UiVXdOVUzL— Philadelphia Union (@PhilaUnion) January 25, 2022
Sorenson isn’t at the level of the others yet realistically. He’s a second team level player. The others are all true first team players now. I wouldn’t expect Sorenson to stick out yet
After Jasinski appeared for the first time in a pre season match today: Curtin on academy product Jack Jasinski: "He could play 5/6 positions. He'll be a 10-year pro. The kind of guy you don't have to worry about. A coach's dream." "I see Brad Evans, the Roldan types where they are just quietly great pros."— Joe Tansey (@JTansey90) February 3, 2022
Aside from the goal against FCD for the u-20's, Sullivan also reportedly looked good in Philly's recent preseason match. And the aforementioned statement from the man who selects lineups was pretty strong in favor of Quinn. Of all domestic prospects in MLS, I think Sullivan's the one most poised for a major breakout. He shouldn't be talked about as somehow a lesser prospect than Paxten. If anything he's better. Paxten has some of his own merit, but let's face it, he's partially drafting off his brother's name. Quinn doesn't get that bump like he's giving his own brother as the older one. It's analogous to the Paredes v. Nyeman situation. Paredes was the better prospect, but Nyeman got more advanced hype. Barring injury, I expect Sullivan to be starting most of this season in Philly and to be quite productive. He should also be penciled in as a starter for the u-20's. As far as the senior NT, it's probably too late for him to make a late run at the WC. But early next cycle we're probably talking breakthrough and move to a bigger club abroad for a price tag that's $10m+.
I think that Paxten is probably a bit overrated and Sullivan definitely underrated, less because of the names (though that is some of it) but mostly because of style. Paxten and Sullivan's little brother are on the ball players, heavy dribblers, flashy. Quinn is more of an all-arounder -- always underrated in any sport -- and an off ball player. He's not going to get the hype relative to performance even without a family name dynamic.
As to Aaronson being more flashy compared to Sullivan, I don't see that as accurate. They are different types of attacking midfielders. Aaronson is more of a low-center of gravity, quick feet, turns, pivots in small spaces. He's able to carry the ball in that sense through a maze of players and is involved in ball progression and attacking chances. Sullivan is taller and plays more of a rangy type of attacking midfielder role where he covers more ground and looks more in control of the whole game. If you want to use player types for USMNT players (and I'm not saying these are anywhere near exact), Aaronson plays more of a Pulisic style and Sullivan plays more of a Reyna style. While I think they aren't that similar in how they play the game, I think they are positionally similar in this formation that the Union use. They both are best in that CAM role right under the two strikers IMO. I think Sullivan probably has more versatility in this formation as he can play as a double 8 or even a secondary striker. Aaronson probably has more versatility in a formation that isn't so narrow because he's more capable of playing as a winger.
Don't know who will end up better, but Sullivan always had way more hype than Paxten, and that's not even close. The first time when I saw Paxten I was specifically told to watch the game because of Sullivan, and was laughed out when I was telling how much I was impressed by Paxten.
You may be referring to a couple savvier onlookers and I'm talking about the popular narrative. Or it's something that's flipped over time, in part due to the success of Paxten's bro. Once Brenden broke out, people were like "wait until you see his brother" (the same thing they're doing now toward Cavan Sullivan). The younger brother is usually expected to be better by the hype beasts, when empirically they're naturally usually worse, in the same way a prospect is usually worse than the proven good player.
This. That was the first MLS year for Branden. He was still known as just another decent prospect that's never made any YNTs. But Paxten back then looked like a tiny kid with curly hair what made him look round and slow, and not even in Branden's range. Cavan gets way more hype than his brother or either Aaronson, is he really that good?
I think empirically younger siblings have a higher likelihood of being elite athletes but that could change maybe if the older sibling is an elite athlete themselves.
What I found is younger siblings tag along with the older brother and practice and play at a higher speed and tempo with the older players. They become a lot more confident and usually more aggressive and that translates to looking like absolute studs in their own age group.
I was thinking about this topic a little yesterday watching Joah Reyna’s Austin U-15 team. I think a big gap in age between siblings leads to less benefit the younger sibling derived from having an older sibling that plays the game. I think Joah is an example of a player that you see the gap with, and I don’t mean that as a slight to him. He’s a good player, but not close to the same level as Gio. Gio was only three years younger than Jack. A five year gap may be too much, especially when you consider that Joah probably wasn’t old enough to derive much benefit from Jack playing the game either. The Carleton’s are another example of the negative effect of a big gap in age. Alan is a good player, but a five year gap and nowhere near the same skill level. He may actually have the better career, but that won’t be due to skill level. With the Union group, Brenden to Paxten is only three years for the Aaronson’s. Brandan to Andrew is only three years for the Craig’s. Quinn to Cavan is five years for the Sullivan’s, but there are another two brothers (‘07 twins) that help bridge the gap. It’s to be seen in all these situations whether the older or younger brother becomes the better player, but I think these are probably all situations where the younger one benefited from the presence of siblings of similar ages that also played. Using examples from other clubs, the Slonina’s are an example of this. Three years from Nicholas to Gabriel. Gabriel likely was stuck in goal by his older brother when they were playing in the yard, and that’s probably why he’s a goalie. Owen Presthus (‘06) is another who clearly benefited. TJ is an ‘03 and is an above average academy level player, but Owen three years younger is much more talented. There’s supposedly a younger Presthus brother named Rhys (believe he’s an ‘09), so we’ll see how he does eventually, but I suspect he benefited from Owen and maybe a little from TJ.
It’s surprising how many casual fans know about Paxten too though. I was talking with a guy from my office, who is very knowledgeable about soccer but not necessarily the USMNT, and he brought up Paxten Aaronson. I prodded a little and started asking what he thought about other 03s and he really mostly knew about Paxten and Pepi. He seemed familiar with Paredes and Clark, but Paredes is from our home team and Clark is ‘on the books’ for Liepzig. But he had actual insights on Paxten’s game.
My experience says two to three years is best. Over three years and the younger brother is usually overwhelmed physically. Less than two and they might as well be twins. If I were to plan it out, I’d have the oldest son born in the 10-12th month and then the little brother about 26-28 months later in the 1-4 month of the year so the brothers would be 3 calendar years apart but only 2+ physical years. If they play and practice a lot of soccer together growing up the younger brother will likely be recognized as a fantastic player in his age group.
Oh yeah I meant more there are actual studies of this and empirically younger siblings have a higher likelihood. Lots of caveats that you all have laid out in terms of age difference and whatnot. Not too mention all the anecdotal evidence of high level siblings is clearly mixed (hazards, the mannings, Steph curry, the roldans lol, Williams sisters) so I do think when elite siblings are paired it’s mixed or different.
There is a third Presthus. Rhys is MLS academy level but not quite at the talent level of his brothers yet. TJ is the best one overall and Owen is the most talented but can have some consistency issues. Some games Owen is an undeniable talent that would merit a YNT call up but then can have two performances after that are extremely average, Dante Sealy like. Owen’s match against NYC in the Atlanta showcase last year and his performance against Philly in Norco show that there’s a ton of potential there but can he bring this out consistently like the players who make a youth national team camp? TJ is more limited but is a warrior, every game you get his best. Rhys is still to be determined, more of a 6/CB and is less dynamic than OP is Generally the youngest sibling is the best and you all are right, they benefit from playing up with older players in unstructured free play settings outside of training. You often see that a younger sibling has more creativity and skill. A good example is Cavan Sullivan. There is a big gap between Cavan and Quinn age wise but Cavan has two other older brothers (the 07 twins) that he got to play against daily instead who taught him things they learned against Quinn who taught them things he learned from his dad. But a big age gap between immediate siblings can likely erase this advantage but sometimes good players just find a way
FCD has had a long list of siblings come thru over the years. I'd say Jonathan Gomez is the only younger sibling that's clearly better than the older brother. So I don't know if there's any real formula here. Porter Pomykal, Ty Reynolds, Santiago Ferreira, Jaden Servania, Diego Pepi, Neo Che, the list goes on and on. We'll see about the Carreras, but they seem pretty even to me. Anyway, I think we're prone to overanalysis on this one......................
I am sure their have been some long-term analysis on it and over a huge sample size, I would think the benefit of being a younger sibling playing with older kids would be a slight advantage, but the biggest factor has to be physical and mental traits that the kids are born with and that would just be random. Michael Jordan is the 4th of 5, but credits his older brother, Larry with a lot of his development. Larry was also a ridiculous athlete and played in college, but was 5' 8". MJ was 6' 6". If they switched heights you would have likely heard of Larry Jordan, but not MJ.