The PGMOL are VARy sorry.....again- The VAR Thread II [R]

I guess we differ on wanting that Firmino goal of 0.3mm to be ruled offside and not wanting such things to be ruled offside. Tbh/ the time it takes doesn't really bother me that much....

 

For the reasons I have again stated above - no you wouldn't. You're focusing on the measurement thing too much.

it's like the difference between runnign a red light and rolling a stop-sign in front of a hidden motorcycle cop. You are breaking the same law, but one of them most people will look at as a fair cop (pun unintended) and the other not.
Likewise, if we see our guy start to get away from his defender and it comes then to a measurement of whether or not he got too far away than what we thought we would/did see - basic psychology 101 reading will convince that people will not have the same argumentative perspective, and will not be arguing about that measurement. Because, as I say again, the argument is not at al about the measuring.
It's not the measuring that is the problem - it's specifically what they are measuring that is the crux of the dislike. They are measuring an advantage that no-one's eye can ever hope to recognioze outside of slow/stopped motion frames.
In my case the measurement has many places for the eye to start to guess at before it gets to its limit.

in one version the "limit" is at the beginning of the looking.
In the other the same mathematical limit is at the end of the looking.

 

100%. This isn’t about Liverpool. It’s about how to improve VAR (offside) so it’s an acceptable process. Bobby being mm offside is fine - taking 5 min to figure it out is not.

 

Yes. Because you have to focus on the measurement thing if you're going to change the offside rule, surely. The offside rule is about measurement -- where you measure, which parts of the body to measure, and how much (if any) margin of error is given for that measurement between on and off.

Ok, as long as you admit this is just a matter of opinion? You're welcome to yours, of course, I don't think there's good evidence that some majority of people share your personal stated preference on this... I think many, many fans would not like this change. Which I think is part of the reason it hasn't gone further forward in trials.

Yeah. And similarly, for a daylight offside incident many fans (including me) will not want an attacker kept ONSIDE because his hip was indeed slightly overlapping the 2nd to last defender's... there might have been no "daylight" between his "upper body" and the defender's, but because he's half a stride behind that defender it doesn't make sense for that to be "onside".

All I'm really saying is this merely a preference; either way, the cutting edge of the law will remain. And we will have people dissatisfied with close offside calls no matter where you draw that line.

 

I mean, offside seems to be less of a "problem" than red cards, sure. But seems like it's just a matter of time before something pops up again, especially relating to the "was he impacting play from offside position" calls... the Shampton match controversy, I think that was a mere 1-2 gameweeks ago?

BUT I do agree with you, they started from a bad place and the pivoting specifically in the prem seems to have helped offsides go over better, generally -- as you say, the margin of error and quick flags in particular have directly helped. Close calls still happen, but they don't look as bad as Mane's buttcheek flagging him off. So yeah. Agree there.

The problem is... those toenails offsides will be back with SAOT...

Sure. Perhaps. I mean, I hope you're right.

Yeah, that's fair. But this is why I'm such a proponent of assessing individual incidents... because "feelings" aren't worth that much when we're trying to talk about the actual, verifiable successes (and failures!) of the biggest change in the way the game is officiated since they invented whistles.

 

I think it's more like 5cm IIRC... but it's the margin of error they added on to VAR offsides. If an attacker is deemed to be offside by say 3cm or whatever, it's within that MOE or "grace" as owian put it and is now considered onside automatically.

This was not the case when VAR was first adopted; it took over a year to make this change.

 

Seems like feelings based on assumed guesses ........

 

is it written into the laws/guidelines. I can't find it.

I've honestly never seen it in writing or heard it mentioned in any game. Apart from some proposals several years ago (in the very-early VAR days when the micro-offside decisions were becoming reality) that AFAIK never went anywhere.

 

there is no specific-measurement "grace zone". my guess is this perception is related to the PGMOL deciding to change the way lines are drawn, which ends up eliminating the micro-offsides.

 

This is exactly right, that's how they did it -- the line was made 5cm "thicker" to get rid of the very worst-looking/closest offside calls.

 

Premier League official David Coote has been sacked by referees' body PGMOL following a "thorough investigation" into his conduct.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/c983y2ylev5o

 

Wow! Surprise. I guess all the official board seats where filled.
Remember while Riley was sacked up to head position because he was so bad on the pitch.

 

There needs to be some "splaining from the PGMOL.

First we need more than "he violated the terms of his employment contract" what specifically does that mean? Was it the cocaine? The Shit talking? or was he paying for his habit by having friends place bets for him?

When were they aware of this? If it was before the first video was made public then there need to be some serious consequences for the people who did not act then. And if they didn't know why not? And is this a wider problem among referee's?

Finally why wasn't he allowed to ref Liverpool games for three years?

It is possible that this is an isolated incident that the PGMOL is a competent organizing and Coote did an excellent job of covering his tracks so it wasn't their fault. But I think it's much more likely that at best the PGMOL were not competent enough to catch him, or were more interested in covering for their mate then providing competent referees.

 

Obviously a good sacking. He had to go.

 

well said, owian. my guess is PGMOL will just stonewall the broader aspects if this of course.

 

Time to move on

 

one bad apple

 

While I believe there is/was a conspiracy during Klopp’s reign around scheduling, IME the Darren England fiasco demonstrates its incompetence rather than a conspiracy.

In this case, an employee/contractor trashed one of your biggest customers/partners and demonstrated unprofessional behavior while representing the FA. Sacked.

Pretty clear the FA knew this existed. They took action in their view and it’s done. They decided to sack him yes, b/c it became public, but the cocaine videos you can’t come back from. While some argue bias, I believe the analysis showed no bias, but rather just being shit

 

I have to agree that it’s just incompetence rather than bias.

 

I don't think the analysis is able to show any conclusions. The sample size isn't large enough, almost every call is subjective, and all of the "analysis" focuses on the big calls like Reds and Penalties.

Tim Donaghy, the corrupt NBA ref, claimed he never actually shaved points. All he did was give the bookies inside information on the personal feelings of refs towards certain coaches, players, and teams. And he claimed that a ref could impact a game by 6-8 points easy without anyone noticing. Now he is not the most trustworthy source but the bookies weren't paying him out of charity so either he was putting his thumb on the scale, or other refs were impacting the games in a predictable way. In either case nothing was proved definitively and the NBA still claims none of their games were impacted. Yet he was found guilty.

All over the world refs have been caught messing with games. Rarely if ever is it because of their calls in the game.

To be clear I don't think their is a grand conspiracy against Liverpool FC, but I also don't like the idea that just because he didn't send off a Red in every match means he was fine.

 

Can anyone explain the VAR guy's decision for the Atalanta penalty against Real Madrid?

Did he leave his monocle in the hotel room? Something like that...??

 

Pens don't get much more obvious than this, you can't accidentally trip someone when they are dribbling past you toward the penalty spot... you're saying you think VAR should have taken it away?

 

i'm saying somoene please show me the frame where there is contact. I couldn;t see any contact on the close shot?
Maybe I didn;t get the good angle, but there's no visible contact on the highlight reel I watched

I'll have a look for it and post it later.