The PGMOL are VARy sorry.....again- The VAR Thread II [R]

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by Samarkand, Oct 12, 2023.

  1. Samarkand

    Samarkand Member+

    May 28, 2001
    I’d be pretty sure he’s an idiot and doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
     
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  2. speker

    speker Member+

    May 16, 2009
    Canada
    Club:
    Liverpool FC

    And he certainly is not familiar with proper reffing like we get in the epl.
     
  3. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's cited to address the Scotland sending off. That's not talking about someone raising a boot to take a ball out of the air.
     
  4. speker

    speker Member+

    May 16, 2009
    Canada
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    He said there would be no tolerance on such challenges.

    Any challenge above the boot.........
    he says and which the chest certainly is.
     
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  5. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    "... essentially if you DIVE / SLIDE / LEAP IN..." not super relevant to Doku, is it?

    But hey... I guess we will see if anyone gets a red for a high boot?
     
  6. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  7. speker

    speker Member+

    May 16, 2009
    Canada
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Sounds like the Doku challenge would fall under the leap in , above the boot no tolerance category. Deffo.
     
  8. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Seems obvious that "no tolerance" statement is about challenges on the ground, but YMMV obviously.

    SPA-CRO:
    - goal taken away for penalty infringement... always been really strict on this
    - also didn't intervene to give a red for Rodri, for DOGSO on the penalty challenge
     
  9. speker

    speker Member+

    May 16, 2009
    Canada
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    The difference between VAR in prem compared to Euro comps is that the prem uses VAR to protect refs and europe use it to get the right decision.
    (Mark Goldbridge)
     
  10. soccershaggy

    soccershaggy Member+

    May 18, 2003
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    This, 100%.
     
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  11. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Seems like they just have significantly different bars for what a pen/handball/red is. Which I'll admit can be frustrating. But almost any issue you've seen in the prem, you can see examples of in continental leagues, and in UEFA competitions.

    Barring the Diaz offside... would be shocked if that happened any other time.
     
  12. Samarkand

    Samarkand Member+

    May 28, 2001
    With the added wrinkle that when there’s a ref in the booth who is perceived to be junior to the onfield ref, he doesn’t have the authority or indeed the backing to overturn his more senior colleague.
     
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  13. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    BEL-SVK!

    Lukaku equalizer in the 85th minute or thereabouts... but clear handball by the winger before the goal. VAR takes it away. Pretty obvious one.

    Took a couple minutes, ref went to monitor to view.

    Also was an offside takeaway in the same match... took longer than I'd expect with the SAOT. And I don't think they even broadcast the digital image for that one.
     
  14. newterp

    newterp Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 6, 2007
    North Potomac, MD
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    they showed the automated screen image a bit later.

    The handball was soft. I did enjoy the audio scope image.
     
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  15. zaqualung

    zaqualung Member+

    Jun 17, 2015
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    I'm kinda opposite on this-
    I can accept a degree of subjectivity in particular types of demarcated foul, in this case to make it where the onus is on the ref to say that he thought it was heedlessly reckless, and not just that the guidelines allow for such a judgment, hence such a judgment, etc....
    This would take some training to get it mostly right. But at least then the mistakes would be more often closer to a 50-50
    and not Curtis Jones rolling over a ball that someone else moved after he initiated his own movement to the same ball. While I know that any of this kind of stuff would need a stated rule change - it would surely be to the general good to have that change stipulated.

    Refs need anti-stupidity training of some sort to get out of that mindset that what Jones did deserved in any universe of thought to be a sending off.

    And - for those who don't think such a rule change is any kind of a good idea - yer wrong ;) - and keep in mind that if they are going to be consistent about this "possibly injuring players", as I pointed out at the time of the Jones incident, then any time two players bang their heads together and the ref has to introduce a concussion protocol watch - then they should in theory both be sent off in any rules' scenario where it is deemed that intentionality has no role to play in determining dangerous play.
     
  16. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dutch get a tough one vs France, goal disallowed for offside.

    Attacker was in keeper's way, and was in offside position. So it isn't going to count according to the rules the overwhelming majority of the time. If the attacker isn't there, is keeper able to react and dive? I think the answer is yes. Does he save it?? The answer is almost certainly no, don't think he's saving it. That's why it's tough.

    But the player standing there, that alone might prevent the keeper from even trying to dive... and that isn't allowed from an offside position. Think that easily meets the definition of "affecting play".

    Optically, it's not great no matter what the rationalization. This used to just be a really good goal in a big big match. To see it chalked off is never going to feel good.
     
  17. newterp

    newterp Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 6, 2007
    North Potomac, MD
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's a rule they need to tighten up as well.
     
  18. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Isn't the only way to change it is to allow the offside rule apply... unless (subjectively-speaking) the keeper "didn't have a chance to save the ball"?
     
  19. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    2 good VARs in Georgia - Czechia: one goal taken away for attacking handball, another pen given for handball. Pretty obvious.
     
  20. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Bel-ROM ... auto offside VAR doing its job, again. and quickly, again.

    no way Lukaku looked off in real time.
     
  21. speker

    speker Member+

    May 16, 2009
    Canada
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Quite pleased with the officiating in most of the games I've watched.
     
  22. speker

    speker Member+

    May 16, 2009
    Canada
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Of course English refs would oversee one of the first issues with VAR.

    The first ridiculous VAR decision of Euro 2024 typically came from a Premier League official, with Netherlands captain Virgil van Dijk left frustrated.
    Netherlands could – and should – have won it, however, when Xavi Simons struck from the edge of the area midway through the second half.
    The celebrations were cut short, though, with referee Anthony Taylor advised by his linesman that Denzel Dumfries was stood in an offside position when Simons let fire.

    A long VAR check followed – breaking the norm from an almost-seamless tournament so far otherwise – as Taylor’s Premier League colleague Stuart Attwell adjudged the situation.

    It was a subjective call over whether Dumfries had blocked goalkeeper Mike Maignan from attempting to save Simons’ effort, and after nearly three minutes, Attwell decided the goal should not stand.
    Van Dijk said: “We scored a goal that is a fair goal.

    “[Maignan] had no chance to get into that corner, but the English referee decided to disallow it.”

    It seems no coincidence that the first major VAR issue at the Euros came with Premier League officials in charge, with it not lost on fans of various clubs and countries.

    Virgil van Dijk blasts "the English referee" after VAR farce denies Netherlands victory - Liverpool FC - This Is Anfield
     
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  23. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    #648 SamScouse, Jun 22, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2024
    I've only seen that in real time, and it did look to me that the player would have prevented the goalie from trying to get to the ball - and my guess is that's the standard that refs / VAR should apply - not "he wouldn't have saved it anyway" which introduces (yet another) layer of subjectivity into things.

    other angles might change my mind though.
     
  24. speker

    speker Member+

    May 16, 2009
    Canada
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Virg reckons the keeper was never getting there so good enough for me.
     
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  25. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sam do you mind the toenail offsides less due to it happening quicker?
     

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