The PGMOL are VARy sorry.....again- The VAR Thread II [R]

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by Samarkand, Oct 12, 2023.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Looking forward to the tweet admitting that they have no "options".

    They are just flailing; already found guilty of breaking the rules, they don't give a shit about anything but staying up. That tweet is completely embarrassing and utterly pathetic.

    The three calls aren't even that insane! 2 of them are pretty reasonable. The last one, think that should be a pen. But grow the ******** up.

    The prem should bring down the hammer on them for this garbage.
     
  2. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    #477 Editor In Chimp, Apr 21, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2024
    First one, you see them given but I’m okay with the no-call; Reyna was looking for it and anywhere else on the field doesn’t fall theatrically down with such minimal contact.

    Second one is called a pen as often as it isn’t, Young has his arms out and only pulls them in after contact. Call it 50:50.

    Third one is stonewall.

    Forest need to knock it off though; by my reckoning they aren’t even on the medal podium of “teams that have been hosed by poor officiating/VAR this year”. If Wolves want to make that tweet, have at it. Liverpool lost both a completely valid goal and had an absolute pen ignored by Oliver against City and an absolute pen for palming the ball against Arsenal.
     
    owian and soccershaggy repped this.
  3. Samarkand

    Samarkand Member+

    May 28, 2001
    Anthony Taylor’s gonna be in trouble. Reyna has told his mom and dad how upset he was that Taylor pretty much accused him of simulation.
     
    newterp and Editor In Chimp repped this.
  4. Binomial

    Binomial Member

    Liverpool
    Andorra
    Feb 5, 2024
    VAR and PGMOL have a lot to answer for in that Everton Forest game.

    First one probably not a but as it is minimal contact but we needed a camera angle which didn't block the view (I.e showing Reyna's foot in front of Young's)

    2nd one is a clear handball, you simply can't have your arm outstretched.....in Europe that gets given like we saw on Thursday.

    3rd one is stonewall, absolutely shocking.
     
  5. Samarkand

    Samarkand Member+

    May 28, 2001
    First 2 were 50/50, seen both given, seen both denied. The 3rd one is a penalty. And, for me, shows a severe VAR screwup. Not on the level of Diaz’ goal, but close.

    The ref clearly and unequivocally indicates that the defender got the ball, hence no penalty, that’s why he’s denying the shout. The defender got the ball first. He didn’t. It wasn’t that it was close or difficult to discern in a tangle of feet or that it was 50/50. He didn’t get the ball, simple as.

    Now in this case VAR has a mandate to step in to overturn this clear and obvious error. Either VAR says “that’s a clear penalty, he got the man not the ball, give it” or “that’s a clear penalty, we think, go take a look at the monitor”.

    There’s obvious mitigation for the ref missing the call, real time, angle of view, etc. But there’s no mitigation at all for VAR. On any replay, it’s obvious and yet VAR chose to back the ref’s mistaken call and not the reality in front of them.

    No doubting that Forest’s later statement was all types of f.ucknuts crazy, so it’s going to be very interesting to see how PMGOL responds to this. But this is yet another one for the list of egregious VAR errors this season, starting with Onana against Wolves in August and I suspect we’re not finished yet.
     
    soccershaggy and newterp repped this.
  6. speker

    speker Member+

    May 16, 2009
    Canada
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Forest appealed to the PGMOL about this ref BEFORE the game and simply asked for a different official.. They warned that they believed this ref was biased in favour of a relegation threatened rival .Low and behold their fears were realized and yet another refereeing/var controversy hits the football news.

    The prem should bring the hammer down on the PGMOL for incompetence , lack of consistency and the chaos that surrounds game officiating nowadays.
     
    bayern is god repped this.
  7. Samarkand

    Samarkand Member+

    May 28, 2001
    #482 Samarkand, Apr 22, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2024
    But you can’t have that. Clubs deciding who the officials will or will not be. It’s not that far of a reach for, say, Forest, to declare they only will have the most benevolent refs towards them ref their games.

    For the sake of argument, that the VAR officer is a Luton fan and is bent. For the sake of argument. The truth is, surely, a draw was the better result for Luton? So whatever about the first 2 calls, where maybe he wouldn’t want to see Forest gain an insurmountable lead, on call 3, it would have been in his interest to give it and hope that a draw is the result, no?

    Forest’s statement is, as I’ve said, all types of f.ucknuts and (cue the quasi-racism card) more in keeping with what happens and the allegations thrown around in the Greek and Turkish leagues. (Forest owner is Greek and has already been in trouble this season for accosting officials).
     
  8. speker

    speker Member+

    May 16, 2009
    Canada
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    We're talking about the VAR official in this case not the guy in the middle . I agree in principle clubs shouldn't pick and choose which guy refs the game. However , Forest clearly had issues re Attwell as var before this game and now looks like their fears were justified.
    Avoiding relegation and the millions of pounds in lost revenues is serious business for clubs like Forest ,Everton , Luton etc .Now whether clubs should be able to voice their feelings re what they think is dodgy is debatable but there's no doubt that controversy continues to surround refereeing/var in the premier league to a degree I'm not seeing elsewhere.
    Forests fears now look justified so instead of talking/reading about football we're discussing the reffing.

    It's probably time to either bin var or bin this group of refs .
     
    bayern is god repped this.
  9. Samarkand

    Samarkand Member+

    May 28, 2001
    I don’t see a huge difference between Atwell and Forest and us and Tierney. Tierney was the VAR official for us at some game recently.

    I agree with what you’re saying about the standard of officiating both on the field and the booth this season - I’m not sure I can remember a worse season or at least the appearance of a worse season - but I believe very strongly that clubs should have zero say in the appointment of any of the officials. From the refs to the linesmen to the 4th officials to the VAR booth. That’s such a slippery slope that once initiated you will never climb back and it would be chaos. As bad as things are now, allowing club input into the selection of refs, etc. would be immeasurably worse.

    Sure, allow a complaints panel or process for afterwards, including the firing of officials, but the minute you get to pick your own judge and jury…well, do you really have to look much beyond Lumpy? :p
     
    owian and speker repped this.
  10. Samarkand

    Samarkand Member+

    May 28, 2001
    #485 Samarkand, Apr 22, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2024
    But that’s not the case here is it? If Atwell is a one-eyed, dyed in the wool Luton fan, he would have done everything in his power to ensure the best result for Luton, which was a draw. He had the perfect opportunity, with the 3rd shout to almost effect that outcome. And didn’t do it, for whatever reason.

    If he is a Luton fan, he’s doing a better job as an Everton fan.
     
  11. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    Forest ‘suggesting’ that a ref is biased!!! PGMOL will punish them for suggesting that one of their members is not being impartial.
    The very idea!!!!
     
  12. speker

    speker Member+

    May 16, 2009
    Canada
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    But three points in the bank for Forest is the best result for Forest and thats the result I'd say Forest wanted. I think the suggestion is that Attwell was able to tip the scales so that a Forest win wouldn't happen .
     
  13. speker

    speker Member+

    May 16, 2009
    Canada
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    From what I've heard Forest didn't ask for Attwell to be replaced. What they did was raise their concerns re him prior to the game and left it at that.
    Most of us have discussed similar issues with refs, as you say with Tierney and I can recall many Reds having issues when a manc like Anthony Taylor would do a Lpool/Manchester game. Refs conflict of interest by working middle east games etc.

    Happens all the time because of perceived bias but its unusual for a club to be so outspoken and I'm sure Forest will suffer some sort of reprimand.
    But I do sympathize with them. The standard of reffing is horrible.
     
  14. Samarkand

    Samarkand Member+

    May 28, 2001
    #489 Samarkand, Apr 22, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2024
    Of course Forest wanted the 3 points, but the crux of Forest’s complaint is that as a Luton fan, Atwell improperly influenced the outcome when, as he had a chance to legitimately give Luton the best result possible, he didn’t.

    Forest’s position makes no sense which is, essentially, “Atwell is a Luton fan, he’s not to be trusted with our game”.

    VAR penalty review goes astray, a review which if done properly would have helped Luton. So Atwell’s decision/incompetence hurts Luton rather than helps them.

    Forest’s reply? “……”
     
  15. speker

    speker Member+

    May 16, 2009
    Canada
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Sam , we're not privy to Attwells thinking other than all three non calls were legit penalty shouts and the ref was not asked to have a second look at any of them so if there is no bias there might well be incompetence.

    Either way its a terrible look for refereeing and yet another controversy .
     
    soccershaggy and Samarkand repped this.
  16. Samarkand

    Samarkand Member+

    May 28, 2001
    Don’t disagree with any of that.

    Do disagree with any notions that:
    A) Atwell should have been removed prior to the game on Forest’s say-so
    B) Atwell’s decision(s) somehow favored Luton


    Oh! And, of course, Forest’s post game statement was sheer f.ucknuts.
     
  17. Binomial

    Binomial Member

    Liverpool
    Andorra
    Feb 5, 2024
    It was poor from the FA/PGMOL to have allowed Atwell to officiate in that game to begin with.

    Could you imagine if that game was Everton Liverpool and Atwell was a City or Arsenal fan? We'd be in uproar too.

    All we ask from them as fans of the game, is fairness. That's it. People that know what they're doing calling it down the middle as they see it.
     
    speker repped this.
  18. speker

    speker Member+

    May 16, 2009
    Canada
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    #493 speker, Apr 22, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2024
    I don't know how often clubs contact the PGMOL re refs. I would tend to believe that its not common but if a club has concerns then Pgmol should consider them. The problem I see is its a no win here for pgmol ie switch him and suggest he may be biased or leave him and then watch his incompetence suggest he may be biased.

    But we didn't get here yesterday as we all know from early on this season watching reffing/var fiasco's with our own club. This is a cumulative problem created by the perception real or imagined of a constant flow of inconsistent officiating , poor var decisions which we've discussed ad nauseum here. For Forest its having real life implications for the club and they're reacting now just as we fans have all season.
    I think Forest had three legit shouts for penalties none of which were sent back to the ref to be reviewed and deffo negatively affected Forest. Whether that benefits Luton remains to be seen but if at the end of the season if Luton stays up and Forest go down then this game might have been one important factor. We'll see.
     
  19. Samarkand

    Samarkand Member+

    May 28, 2001
    Proving Atwell’s a Luton fan would be a start.
     
  20. speker

    speker Member+

    May 16, 2009
    Canada
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    I'd be surprised if most refs didn't grow up supporting a team.
     
    Binomial repped this.
  21. newterp

    newterp Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 6, 2007
    North Potomac, MD
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That said - I would expect it to have been denied by now if not true.
     
  22. speker

    speker Member+

    May 16, 2009
    Canada
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Ex-Head Of Refs Keith Hackett claims Stuart Attwell Should Be stood down After Forest Controversy

     
    Samarkand repped this.
  23. speker

    speker Member+

    May 16, 2009
    Canada
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Hackett talks a lot of commonsense.
     
  24. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Doesn't excuse their response.

    Hopefully they will be punished, sounds like the FA is investigating.
     
  25. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So they're just performative outrage merchants... lying, exaggerating, and already docked points for breaking the rules. Things are going poorly, and they throw a fit. Nevermind that they've gotten it better than a lot of sides when it comes to these calls.

    How embarrassing... ******** Forest. Get out of the prem.
     

Share This Page