The paucity of English opportunity thread

Discussion in 'England' started by wellno, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. andals

    andals Member

    Jun 13, 2015
  2. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    Using a bypass.

    Hayden Hackney
    Jeremy Monga
    Thierry Small
    Callum Doyle
    Richard Kone
    Charlie Hughes
    Pierce Charles

    Honarable Mentions
    Abdul Fatawu
    Jaden Philogene
    Taylor Harwood-Bellis

    Some loaners as well as
    James Beadle
    Sveree Nypan
    Jordan James

    Too old for the main list
    Jack Rudoni
    Bobby Thomas
    Sobra Thomas

    Some others
    Isaac Price
    Karamoko Dembele
    Sindre Walle Egeli
     
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  3. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Any queries with this selection? I would have Josh King higher up the ranks. Also thought he’s more of a 10 than an 8.

     
  4. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    JJ Gabriel has a lot of potential but Monga, Ngumoha and Moore are all above him at the moment.
     
  5. GermanBlade

    GermanBlade Member

    Sheffield United
    Mar 17, 2025
    #4980 GermanBlade, Jan 13, 2026
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2026
    Jobe over Lewis Miley? No way! Probably just highlighting the supposed big names for engagement farming

    EDIT: Lewis-Skelly over Nico at left back is also a ... choice. No Reggie Watson´s baffling.
    And some of these positions don´t make much sense e.g. Nwaneri on the right wing instead of Lacey who was placed in the 10 role etc.
     
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  6. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    It’s more based on how high their ceilings are I think. I would probably have Mane in there as well coming to think of it.
     
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  7. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Having said what I just said but this probably rings true also. Some of those other players I think have higher potential than Jobe who hasn’t exactly set senior football on fire at the moment.
     
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  8. GermanBlade

    GermanBlade Member

    Sheffield United
    Mar 17, 2025
    He came through at the Fulham academy as a entral midfielder and has played there in the younger England underage groups too but Marco Silva and Carsley have deployed him further up the pitch. I personally prefer him in central midfield by far.
     
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  9. ADM99

    ADM99 Member+

    Apr 28, 2019
    There's a lot I'd change really.

    Pinnington is an especially weird choice at CB given he's not even a starter for Liverpool's 21s, let alone in the England set up.
     
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  10. ADM99

    ADM99 Member+

    Apr 28, 2019
    Also only just noticed that Floyd Samba is down as a #6?
     
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  11. GermanBlade

    GermanBlade Member

    Sheffield United
    Mar 17, 2025
    Wait a sec... Is there no Max Alleyne in there? Surely just supposed to be rage-baiting interactions then as is the case with most of these internet football accounts
     
  12. Regis Prograis

    Regis Prograis Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Feb 8, 2020
    Going to post this here, can’t be bothered to debate what changes/bans you think the FA should make, but here is the data, as I’m sure certain people will want to.


    Percentage of minutes played by nationality in PL so far this season.

    England: 105,927 minutes → 23.82%
    France: 38,171 minutes → 8.58%
    Netherlands: 37,214 minutes → 8.37%
    Brazil: 30,319 minutes → 6.82%
    Spain: 19,725 minutes → 4.44%
    Portugal: 17,401 minutes → 3.91%
    Germany: 13,088 minutes → 2.94%
    Argentina: 12,450 minutes → 2.80%
    Italy: 11,002 minutes → 2.47%
    Wales: 9,900 minutes → 2.23%

    Percentage of minutes played by nationality in Championship so far this season.

    England: 290,774 minutes → 43.60%
    Republic of Ireland: 41,788 minutes → 6.27%
    Wales: 31,120 minutes → 4.67%
    Scotland: 29,157 minutes → 4.37%
    Denmark: 18,645 minutes → 2.80%
    Northern Ireland: 15,785 minutes → 2.37%
    Jamaica: 14,860 minutes → 2.23%
    Japan: 12,139 minutes → 1.82%
    United States: 11,894 minutes → 1.78%
    Australia: 11,731 minutes → 1.76%
     
  13. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
     
  14. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    I actually didn’t realise they didn’t have an U21 league set up of sorts but don’t there ‘ U21’s’ play in the lower leagues against senior teams?
     
  15. GermanBlade

    GermanBlade Member

    Sheffield United
    Mar 17, 2025
    Yeah but clubs aren't obliged to even have these II teams. Clubs like Leverkusen and others don't have a second team in the lower leagues. Despite that, Leverkusen has arranged loans for two of their top prospects in Alfa-Ruprecht (the guy who used to play in City's u18s and EDS) and Onyeka who both contribute significantly to Bochum in the 2. Bundesliga.
    The main criticism though has always been coaches might prefer physically ready players over technicians if all of the young players are forced to play against adults from the lower leagues compared to a select few who the club deems ready to handle these physical and mental demands like in the English loan system. And these loan systems have their obvious flaws as well like players neeedimg time to adapt to men's football whilst the supporters of the loan team become more amd more impatient etc.
    It also more than anything depends on the club's culture I'd reckon. Some clubs who are known for trusting their youth like for example Schalke, Mainz or Hoffenheim have made quote a good use of promoting their top prospects to the II teams and thus exposing them to the men's game, getting them ready for their first team. It's a bit similar to a player going to a club like say Wolves because they have a Cat1 academy compared to say Norwich or Peterborough for example who have shown they are willing to trust young players.
     
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  16. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    I guess I could post this in the U15 thread but don’t want to derail the thread so probably best here. Anyway some may find this article from the Athletic interesting as it’s about the chaos at the latest U15 match with the USA with regard to the vermin….oh sorry, I mean agents and the shannanigins they get up to.


    It’s so competitive… it’s ridiculous’: Inside player scouting at England vs USA U15s

    The pitch is uneven and the grass is patchy. The stadium has only one stand.

    Yet every Premier League team and Category One academy would likely have been aware of the match that took place on Saturday morning at the Sotira Municipal Stadium in Cyprus.

    England’s Under-15 boys are playing against the United States. Players’ family members, from both nations, have made the trip. So have several agents, club scouts, and heads of academy recruitment.

    Everyone is taking a glance at who they are sitting near or next to. Many of the spectators appear busy working out who to talk to first.

    The setting may be tranquil, yet agents are under no illusion about how fierce the competition is. Ultimately, they have made the journey to Cyprus with a solitary motivation — to get ahead in the race to sign players from that age group.

    In June last year, new regulations from the English Football Association (FA) came into effect, stating an agent is only authorised to make an approach, or enter into an agreement, with a player in the year they turn 16. In turn, under-15s can be officially represented from September 1 in their under-16s season, which is seven months away.

    Though regulations do not (officially) allow formal approaches, agents are laying the groundwork and attempting to forge relationships with players and, most importantly, their families. Scouts are not going to watch England Under-15s to see a player for the first time — rather, it forms a strand of a longer, more gradual process of monitoring a target.

    International away fixtures are fertile ground for two reasons: agents can discern who the best players in the country are for their age, and games abroad mean families have time between travelling and matches, so agents can start to arrange meetings and build relationships.

    England’s seven-day camp in Cyprus was one of the final opportunities for agents to learn about potential clients and establish connections. The final trip before players can be formally approached will be in Croatia, in May, which is expected to be even busier.

    “It’s carnage”, says one agent, who, like all others in this piece, is speaking on the condition of anonymity to protect relationships. “It’s a free-for-all.”

    Player representation is hugely competitive, especially at this age, when trying to get players on board for the first time. Some agencies regard England youth-team matches as the chief opportunity to win over families. Some will offer to cover the cost of their travel and accommodation and possibly take them out for dinner as well.

    There have even been tales of parents finding jobs within the agency company as a way of not taking money directly. Other incentives include promising brand or sponsorship deals. One agent tells The Athletic that a player was happy at their agency after receiving tickets to a boxing fight. From an academy standpoint, some higher-grade clubs budget for players’ family expenses.

    “It’s so competitive… it’s ridiculous now,” another agent adds.

    Within the one stand, which holds no more than 500, are brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, agents and high-ranking talent scouts. England’s backroom staff comprised at least 15 people.

    Most of the Category One clubs — those with the highest rating for youth development — were represented on Saturday, including Arsenal, Manchester City, Manchester United, Southampton, Chelsea and Aston Villa. Borussia Dortmund and Ajax also had scouts in attendance.

    Some brought multiple staff across during the week, with England playing against Cyprus four days earlier. Wales and Scotland were involved in matches at the opposite end of the island in Paphos, so several agents and scouts decided to stay out for longer. Despite days without matches, three agents told The Athletic that there was no time to relax or soak up some winter sun.

    “Yesterday, I went for coffee with one of the heads of academy recruitment at a Premier League club,” says one. “Being out here and with two England matches in Cyprus, most parents are out here for the duration, so they have time to meet agents and to put a face to the name.”

    One representative said they are going to Turkey next week to watch England Under-16s.

    “You always get something out of it,” says another agent, speaking from experience. They recall managing to build a rapport with an under-15 player’s family a few years ago, as one relative could not make an international match. Instead, the agent went and filmed parts of the game. The family were appreciative, helping to foster a bond and eventually, an agreement.

    Similarly, not all clubs send staff to international age-group matches to scout; sometimes, a staff member will go as a show of support for their own player or to outline their intentions for the academy prospect to stay and sign a professional contract at 17.

    There is an acceptance within the industry that more established UK players either already have representation or will be “hoovered up”, as one agent put it, by the sprawling net of the big agencies, including CAA Base and Unique Sports Group. Consequently, there is greater value in scouting younger players and growing a rapport with families. In their view, it only takes one player to strike gold — by that, they mean financial rewards and a positive impact on them and their company’s reputation.

    “Agents are willing to invest £50,000 now because they know they will make £250,000 off that player’s first pro deal,” explains another agent.

    Recruitment at youth level has fundamentally been reshaped since Brexit. The UK’s membership of the European Union ending in 2021 altered the dynamic of youth football, with new restrictions stopping freedom of movement between the UK and EU.

    Although cross-border passports for some of England’s players means they will not have the same challenges in moving abroad — several agents have said this is an appealing factor — clubs also suffer from the inability to recruit anyone under the age of 18 from overseas. Being required to exclusively scout domestically has only magnified the competition.

    In essence, England Under-15s is an introduction to international football. It is helpful for England to gauge the level of players and, considering some are dual nationals, an opportunity to give specific youngsters a taste of playing for England. This applied to two of the most highly regarded talents taken to Cyprus, Arsenal’s Luis Munoz and Will Ferdinand at Barcelona.

    “In all honesty, it’s too early to assess them as a group,” another agent says, observing that there were no Manchester City players, who ordinarily would have a handful included, owing to their participation in a tournament abroad. “It will change a lot, and you will probably get a better feeling in their first camp at under-16.”

    One intermediary warns against an intense approach in currying favour, especially with under-15s. For many families, Cyprus was the first time they had seen their relative represent England, so they would prefer to enjoy and savour the occasion, rather than, in the agent’s words, “have someone man-marking them”.

    They recount an earlier instance of one agent standing in the family area when players were receiving their international caps, attempting to strike conversation with their relatives.

    As England’s youngsters finish their warm-ups, agents begin passing around teamsheets. One representative, who did not attend, messaged The Athletic, asking for a copy. It was important to know who started, who scored, and which players are showing early success at youth international level.

    Elsewhere, heads of recruitment sit at the back of the stand. Parents were dispersed in small groups, with agents admitting that working out which son belongs to which parent can sometimes be difficult.

    The occasion, in truth, can be quite overwhelming for some who, if anyone needs reminding, are still 14. It was this England squad’s first camp together, so learning to play with new team-mates, amplified by debuting for their country in front of scouts, coaches and agents, induced a slight state of frenzy.

    As for the match, England scored from the penalty spot inside 60 seconds, but the U.S. equalised a minute later. The U.S. were dominant and leading 3-1 in the first half, but as many agents had already anticipated, were undone after the break through England’s overall quality and the introduction of Munoz and Liverpool’s Luca Eden. Interestingly, Brazil international Thiago Silva’s son, Iago, came on at right-back as England won 4-3.

    Before many agents flew back later in the day, the full-time whistle provided a key tell-tale sign; which parents approached which player to congratulate them.

    “It is about keeping an ear to the ground,” says one agent. “It’s about knowing who is likely to sign with who.”


     
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  17. andals

    andals Member

    Jun 13, 2015
    thanks for sharing Marcho.

    the USA seem to be performing well at these younger age groups. they too are battling for dual nationals as much as we are.
     
  18. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Behind a paywall but I’m sure this article is of interest to a few guys on here when it comes to the old topic of the type of midfield player we develop.

     
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  19. MrSnrub

    MrSnrub Member+

    Oct 7, 2018
    I think Gomes falls more into the Harry Winks category of someone who simply was never as good as people wanted them to be, simply because they fit a unusual profile for England.

    Gomes has spent basically his entire senior career out of england but never developed beyond at best a slightly above average ligue one player. There are issues with how England has produced midfielders (or rather, hasn't) but I don't see him as a good example of it.
     
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  20. andals

    andals Member

    Jun 13, 2015
    only counterpoint, and a rare one at that, is we got to see him on the international stage when Carsley was interim. he performed admirably.
     
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  21. MrSnrub

    MrSnrub Member+

    Oct 7, 2018
    #4996 MrSnrub, Feb 27, 2026
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2026
    He did fine but he started 2 games against a extremely limited Finland side who lost every single game in the group, not really a test of his qualities.
     
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  22. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    Gomes is just too small, slow and weak. Ditto for Harvey Elliot. I fear Nwaneri will underwhelm too because of the same lack of physicality.
     

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