The paucity of English opportunity thread

Discussion in 'England' started by wellno, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. hussar

    hussar Member+

    Jun 24, 2015
    It's wrong to put Coventry, QPR and Stoke in the same basket as Fulham. They have lot more English players, all of them bought young English players recently, have English (or at Stoke, Northern Irish) manager, they are not the next Brentford.
     
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  2. Regis Prograis

    Regis Prograis Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Feb 8, 2020
    That's partly true if you are talking about players from within EU. But its easier now for Championship teams to sign Non EU players from higher ranked FIFA nations, that they wouldn't have been able to sign before. Darryl Dike at Barnsley being an example.
     
  3. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    To be fair, I was looking at their last round of games. You’re right about Coventry, I must have looked at the wrong line up as they had 5 English players starting but Stoke only had 3 and QPR had 4 so all are marginally better than Fulham but probably won’t have as much as a positive impact as some of the teams that could get relegated this season.
     
  4. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    Through how many internationals (who have appeared for their national squad) from the higher ranked nations will want to play in the championship. America caps more younger players than a lot of the higher Fifa rankings do which how Dike qualified.
     
  5. Regis Prograis

    Regis Prograis Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Feb 8, 2020
    #3030 Regis Prograis, Nov 24, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
    I know how Dike qualified, but it also doesn't necessarily have it be full internationals (although it helps), new rules make it easier for young players from South America to sign, they are almost guaranteed a work permit if the player is playing regularly for a Libertadores or Sudamericana club, I'm guessing this is how Fulham signed Rodrigo Muniz.

    Time will tell if this happens of course, I'm sure it might be seen as attractive for some younger players, as its a massive shop window with higher wages. Championship teams will now be forced to scout different markets if they want to sign non British or Irish players.
     
  6. hussar

    hussar Member+

    Jun 24, 2015
    Stoke has a lot of English players in their squad, enough for a whole XI, just having a lot of injuries. Also QPR fielded 7 English players altogether yesterday, and keep buying youngsters like Dozzell, Field and Chris Willock, they are definitely a different class to Fulham, and Warburton has been always conscious about English youngsters. Both clubs would be much better for the rate of English players in the Prem than Fulham. Unfortunately Fulham look stronger, though maybe we should trust Marco Silva's legendary ability to make his teams fall apart in the middle of the season.
     
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  7. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    English eligible players starting in the Premier League, total per matchday: Season 2021-2022:

    Matchday 1 - 76/220 = 34.54%
    Matchday 2 - 77/220 = 35%
    Matchday 3 - 83/220 = 37.7%
    Matchday 4 - 85/220 = 38.63%
    Matchday 5 - 77/220 = 35%
    Matchday 6 - 78/220 = 35.45%
    Matchday 7 - 80/220 = 36.3%
    Matchday 8 - 72/220 = 32.7%
    Matchday 9 - 78/220 = 35.45%
    Matchday 10 - 74/220 = 33.6%
    Matchday 11 - 80/220 = 36.3%
    Matchday 12 - 89/220 = 40.45%
    Matchday 13 - 63/198 = 31.8% ( Burnley v Spurs TBC )
     
  8. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
    Lee Carsley on Folarin Balogun:
    ""He's probably missed out on that little bit of senior football. You need testing. Watching him in the U23's for Arsenal, it's probably a little bit too easy for him and he's passed that level ....I think it would be fair to say that a lot of the clubs in Europe would be aware of Flo's qualities and if anything he has just got to keep proving it to himself"

    Balogun on himself:
    "I do feel like I am ready for a new challenge but I am not sure what that might be, it might be a loan or if I am needed at Arsenal then I am here and the gaffer knows that."
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/folarin-balogun-arsenal-hat-trick-25557879
     
  9. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    Quite a big drop week on week. Obviously Burnley(7)and Spurs (3) would have pushed it up a bit but still would have been the lowest of the season based on the starting line up’s they issued just before it was postponed.
     
  10. Jenks

    Jenks Member+

    Feb 16, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    All-English front three for City.
     
  11. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    English eligible players starting in the Premier League, total per matchday: Season 2021-2022:

    Matchday 1 - 76/220 = 34.54%
    Matchday 2 - 77/220 = 35%
    Matchday 3 - 83/220 = 37.7%
    Matchday 4 - 85/220 = 38.63%
    Matchday 5 - 77/220 = 35%
    Matchday 6 - 78/220 = 35.45%
    Matchday 7 - 80/220 = 36.3%
    Matchday 8 - 72/220 = 32.7%
    Matchday 9 - 78/220 = 35.45%
    Matchday 10 - 74/220 = 33.6%
    Matchday 11 - 80/220 = 36.3%
    Matchday 12 - 89/220 = 40.45%
    Matchday 13 - 63/198 = 31.8% ( Burnley v Spurs TBC )
    Matchday 14 - 68/220 = 30.9%
     
  12. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Such a big difference from matchday 12 and 14 that it’s quite bizarre! Always feels to me that managers just love to chop and change the English players quite frequently it seems.
     
  13. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    Plus some first choice English Players have got injured or badly lost form and their replacement in the starting line up is non English.
     
  14. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    English eligible players starting in the Premier League, total per matchday: Season 2021-2022:

    Matchday 1 - 76/220 = 34.54%
    Matchday 2 - 77/220 = 35%
    Matchday 3 - 83/220 = 37.7%
    Matchday 4 - 85/220 = 38.63%
    Matchday 5 - 77/220 = 35%
    Matchday 6 - 78/220 = 35.45%
    Matchday 7 - 80/220 = 36.3%
    Matchday 8 - 72/220 = 32.7%
    Matchday 9 - 78/220 = 35.45%
    Matchday 10 - 74/220 = 33.6%
    Matchday 11 - 80/220 = 36.3%
    Matchday 12 - 89/220 = 40.45%
    Matchday 13 - 63/198 = 31.8% ( Burnley v Spurs TBC )
    Matchday 14 - 68/220 = 30.9%
    Matchday 15 - 75/220 = 34.09%
     
  15. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Grassroots clubs built stars of today – surely top clubs can afford to give a little back

    Henry Winter
    , Chief Football Writer
    Tuesday December 07 2021, 12.01am GMT, The Times

    One thousand and forty-two. Numbers are what count most for elite clubs, so here is one for Manchester United’s owners: 1,042 is the impressive total of United games played by those nurtured by one local grassroots club, Fletcher Moss Rangers.

    Nine. Another number. Almost a full outfield has served United after being shaped, to varying degrees, by Fletcher Moss: Wes Brown (361 games), Marcus Rashford (282), Jesse Lingard (221), Danny Welbeck (142), Cameron Borthwick-Jackson (14), Tyler Blackett (12), Zeki Fryers (6), Danny Webber (3) and Ravel Morrison (sadly only 3).

    £300,000. The amount that Fletcher Moss needed last year for work on the clubhouse at their Mersey Bank playing fields. Their chairman, Dave Horrocks, told the Manchester Evening News that the club “could fold”. Forwhat is almost the weekly wage of a star player.


    Fortunately, the club survived and are prospering, but the concern remains for so many of these grassroots dream factories moulding future pros, especially in an age of pandemic damage and facilities hit by council cuts and inclement weather.

    Clubs such as Fletcher Moss are vital to the organism of English football. Kyle Bartley played for the club at youth level before joining Arsenal and is now at West Bromwich Albion; Tosin Adarabioyo went to Manchester City and is now at Fulham; Keiren Westwood also went on to City and was at Sheffield Wednesday until this summer. More recently, one of their under-14s went to Liverpool.

    Seven. Talking of Liverpool, seven was the number of years Raheem Sterling spent at Queens Park Rangers’ academy before heading to Kirkby and Anfield. The elite’s debt to the pyramid is endless. QPR coached Sterling and cared for him — and then lost him to Liverpool for an initial £600,000 in 2010. If the additional maximum of £5 million was not achieved, QPR did have a sell-on clause, and received a sum reported as between £7.8 million and £10 million from Sterling’s £49 million move to City in 2015.

    And they absolutely deserved it. When lower-league and grassroots clubs see the unbelievable money spent by the Premier League on transfers, wages and agents, they have every right to call foul, especially when feeling that their own development work is being exploited.

    The Premier League’s Elite Player Performance Plan (EPPP) has done so much for elite academies, allowing more contact time and better coaching and facilities, but it has undoubtedly allowed the pillaging of development centres down the pyramid.

    £3,000,000. The rough amount that Watford made from their seven-year tuition of Jadon Sancho, a player who has traded for north of £80 million. They put him into boarding school, developed his talent and wisely demanded sell-on clauses. Watford are a Premier League club now but were in the Sky Bet Championship when losing Sancho to City in 2015 for a fee fixed by EPPP up to a maximum of £500,000. Within two years Sancho was sold to Borussia Dortmund for a profit of £7.5 million and City then received a sell-on fee of £9.74 million when he moved to United for £72.9 million. Watford gained a reported £800,000 from the Dortmund deal, then £2.19 million from the United fee.

    When the latter deal was confirmed in the summer, his original club posted “Made in Watford” with a picture of a tyro Sancho in their kit. Is £3 million sufficient recompense for those seven years of coaching? Sancho has spoken respectfully about how Watford coaches challenged him on his attitude, improving him, setting him on the pathway to the top.

    Two. Talking of Watford’s academy, Bukayo Saka was only there for a couple of years before leaving for Arsenal’s Hale End hub but, again, they played a part in his development. “It all started for the forward in our academy,” Watford proudly tweeted when Saka lined up for England against Germany at Wembley on June 29. They posted a picture of a very young Saka in their yellow, red and black strip.

    Away from Watford and QPR, there is lower-league anger over elite academies profiting from their work. Not since the Victorian era has a pyramid been so plundered.

    It is one of the many reasons, including mismanagement, questionable owners and unsustainable salaries, for the tensions and financial divide between the elite and the rest.

    Stepping into a fractious, alarming situation is Tracey Crouch, the right-minded former sports minister, demanding better regulation, governance and distribution of the broadcast deal wealth.

    Premier League clubs are understandably wary about handing more money to those down the ladder who will either squander it or have wealthy owners anyway. And the elite clubs bridle at the 10 per cent levy on transfers proposed by Crouch, which will probably be compromised to 5 per cent.

    Good chief executives, such as Angus Kinnear at Leeds United and Christian Purslow at Aston Villa, front the Premier League assault on the Crouch review. They use emotive language, from “golden goose” to references to Mao Zedong, when what is required is sensible debate, some semblance of a sport working together, and seeing how best to encourage greater financial management at all clubs, Premier League and EFL, non-League and grassroots.

    Look at Chelsea, one of Purslow’s old clubs. They have some fabulous academy graduates shining in their first team, and for England. But Reece James was briefly in Fulham’s academy, while Mason Mount was given an early stage by Portsmouth aged four and five.

    22. The number of the 26-man England Euro 2020 squad who started out at grassroots clubs affiliated to local county FAs. “We always have to remember that every player starts within a grassroots clubs,” Gareth Southgate, the England head coach, has said. “Even if they go to an [elite] academy really early, they’ve played some football somewhere else before.”

    So look at another of Purslow’s former clubs, Liverpool. Tyler Morton, the promising 19-year-old midfielder, may feature for Jürgen Klopp’s side against AC Milan tonight in the Champions League. His old coaches at Greenleas Juniors in Wallasey will be proud, having worked hard to help Morton on his early steps, as he now accelerates at Liverpool.

    So it is in the elite’s interests to have a regulator who instils financial common sense in the lower divisions, also safeguarding against unscrupulous or incompetent owners. One solution is for the incoming regulator to work with the Premier League and channel some of that transfer levy into a general fund for player development (as some existing payments already do).

    Ultimately, everyone would benefit. Aspiring pros would receive even better quality coaching. They would still move on and up, so the elite would gain enhanced talent and the national team would also profit.

    The Premier League recently confirmed a deal for US television rights for £2 billion. The revenue is there to help pyramid academies and grassroots clubs. The logic is there, as it assists the elite in the long term. The numbers add up.

    Jude got it wrong
    It is worth remembering that Jude Bellingham is so young that England’s head coach, Gareth Southgate, had to ask the midfielder’s father’s permission to speak to him in the summer. Bellingham turned 18 on June 29, and his callow years deserve to be a mitigating factor as the German FA (the DFB) considers the suitable punishment for the Borussia Dortmund player’s comment about what he felt was unfair refereeing by Felix Zwayer in their defeat by Bayern Munich.

    “You give a referee, that has match-fixed before, the biggest game in Germany,” Bellingham told Viaplay after the match, “what do you expect?”

    As the DFB — and Fifa — have long decreed that Zwayer is fit to officiate, after a six-month ban for match-fixing in 2005 (although the English FA would surely not countenance any referee continuing after such an incident), then Bellingham’s comments were clearly intemperate. He should apologise to Zwayer and take whatever punishment comes his way. But his youth is some defence. Teenagers do say daft things, especially in the heat of the moment.
     
  16. Calculator

    Calculator Member

    Aug 6, 2021
    Mcatee was an unused substitute in City’s recent dead rubber CL match. Looks like Pep doesn’t rate him then.
     
  17. Jenks

    Jenks Member+

    Feb 16, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    That's how it works, of course.
     
  18. ChristianSur

    ChristianSur Member+

    May 5, 2015
    Club:
    Sheffield Wednesday FC
    Man, this is some obsequious nonsense. He acknowledges that other governing bodies would have banned the ref for life for what he did, then insists that Bellingham should apologise regardless for bringing it up. So what if the DFB and FIFA are fine with having a proven cheat referee big games? How much of a lickspittle do you have to be to think that FIFA, of all organisations, can't be the ones who are in the wrong?
     
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  19. Jenks

    Jenks Member+

    Feb 16, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    Seems to be the way the world is going at the moment.
     
  20. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    English eligible players starting in the Premier League, total per matchday: Season 2021-2022:

    Matchday 1 - 76/220 = 34.54%
    Matchday 2 - 77/220 = 35%
    Matchday 3 - 83/220 = 37.7%
    Matchday 4 - 85/220 = 38.63%
    Matchday 5 - 77/220 = 35%
    Matchday 6 - 78/220 = 35.45%
    Matchday 7 - 80/220 = 36.3%
    Matchday 8 - 72/220 = 32.7%
    Matchday 9 - 78/220 = 35.45%
    Matchday 10 - 74/220 = 33.6%
    Matchday 11 - 80/220 = 36.3%
    Matchday 12 - 89/220 = 40.45%
    Matchday 13 - 63/198 = 31.8% ( Burnley v Spurs TBC )
    Matchday 14 - 68/220 = 30.9%
    Matchday 15 - 75/220 = 34.09%
    Matchday 16 - 71/198 = 35.85% ( Brighton v Spurs TBC )
     
  21. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Fwiw, I’m going to postpone the English eligible update for a while, doesn’t really seem worth it and quite messy with all the fixture postponements. Will start again once we get a full schedule and will update the weeks that we’ve missed once fixtures have been completed.
     
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  22. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    Vale, Soonsup-Bell and Simons all start for Chelsea tonight.
     
  23. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC


    Found this article a really good read for anyone interested.
     
    Red Welly repped this.
  24. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    The test will be to see how the post 2005 cohorts turn out. If those will keep the same level as the early 2000’s it will be good news for English football.
     

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