The paucity of English opportunity thread

Discussion in 'England' started by wellno, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. ADM99

    ADM99 Member+

    Apr 28, 2019
    Mateu Morey, Hugo Guillamon, Juan Miranda & Antonio Blanco have also done well out of that group. Wouldn't say it's just Torres & Garcia.
     
  2. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    They done well in the same way Gallagher, CHO, and Guehi have done well. I’m talking about players that are going to the Euros with their national teams. Getting two players at the level of Foden and Sancho out of one year group is a pretty rare event. Both are not far from being world class already.
     
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  3. Jenks

    Jenks Member+

    Feb 16, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    They're seen as the two biggest talents now, but when this group first game to our attention Gomes and Poveda seemed clear of Foden.
     
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  4. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    Gomes was captain of the group and both at United and England he was perceived as a perhaps a 'generational talent'. Nicky Butt even said he was the most talented player in the history of United's academy.
     
  5. MrSnrub

    MrSnrub Member+

    Oct 7, 2018
    At schoolboy level perhaps but certainly by under 17 level Foden was massively clear, particularly of Poveda who was no longer even making the squad by that point. Angel Gomes also was no longer making starting elevens, with Gibbs-White favoured over him in the world cup.
     
  6. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
    I don't think Angel Gomes has ever stopped being a good prospect. He had big injury problems in that U17 season and he's even smaller than Foden but he's still 20 and just had a good season of regular football in Portugal. It'll be interesting to see what Lille see as being his next step.
     
  7. Slater582

    Slater582 Member

    Jul 21, 2008
    Shrewsbury, England
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    #2757 Slater582, May 31, 2021
    Last edited: May 31, 2021
    Premier League state an average of 38.2% and that this is the highest percentage in the dozen seasons this particular statistic has been recorded. That amounts to a pool of 85 players and they're also stating minutes for homegrown under 23 players has increased.



    Overall (no age limit) English players had the fifth highest minutes (13,417) in the Champions League this season behind only France, Brazil, Spain & Germany and ahead of Portugal & Italy.

    Show Spoiler
    That's slightly more minutes than the two other occasions that culminated in all Premier League finals. In 2007-2008 it was 13,065 and in 2018-2019 a bit higher at 13,384. The 2006-2007 season which had three PL teams in the semi-finals resulted in an almost identical to the latter stat of 13,389.

    You have to go back to 2002-2003 (15,359) to beat the current campaign and that was seventh globally in terms of ranking. Last time England finished top five nations for CL minutes was the preceding 2001-2002 so almost two decades ago. It was only 9,579 minutes last season by way of comparison.

    I think it is also promising if you check the FBref records that the pool of English players in the CL has increased somewhat with 44 different lads appearing this time around. It was a similar 42 last year. If compared to some of the previously mentioned seasons;

    2001-2002: 33 different players
    2002-2003: 35
    2006-2007: 25
    2007-2008: 21
    2018-2019: 35

    It's important as there seems to be a correlation between the amount of players & their subsequent minutes you have in the CL and success at International tournaments. If one looks at where the 21st century (European Championship & World Cup) winning nations ranked in the season preceding their victory.

    Minutes: France (1), Brazil (3), Greece (6), Italy (4), Spain (3), Spain (3), Spain (2), Germany (3), Portugal (5), France (3).

    Total players: France (3), Brazil (3), Greece (4), Italy (4), Spain (3), Spain (4), Spain (1), Germany (2), Portugal (5), France (3).


    Hopefully that under23 stat you posted suggests the trend will be upwards.:thumbsup:
     
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  8. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    I know it’s the Club I support but paying £400,000 for a 13 year old just somehow seems morally wrong!

    1399682475362750464 is not a valid tweet id
     
  9. ADM99

    ADM99 Member+

    Apr 28, 2019
    Similar thing happened a few years ago with Finley Burns being signed from Southend.

    I suppose it's good to see lower league clubs being compensated but the figures are insane & can't help but feel it brings unnecessary attention to someone so young.
     
  10. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Yeah, that was my initial thoughts. Such a large fee for a kid so young must add to even more pressure put upon the poor kid who really should just be playing and enjoying his football without added pressure at his age.
     
  11. Jenks

    Jenks Member+

    Feb 16, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    I think it's a small price to pay for the incentive it brings to lower league academies.
     
  12. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    The fees are going to get bigger with the increased competition at youth level for home grown players since Brexit.
     
  13. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Yeah, that’s a fair point. The more the incentive for lower League Clubs, the more effort they can put into their Academies to develop better quality players.
     
  14. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Two of the goal scorers for England in this game got released by their clubs this week (I know Walcott is going to Southampton).

    Too many of the younger options in that squad got hurt but continuous injuries. Andy Carroll, Phil Jones, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Danny Welbeck and Jack Butland.

     
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  15. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
    Not in the squad but another player from that generation hamstrung by injuries - Daniel Sturridge has been without a club for over a year since leaving Liverpool.

    He's recently said on twitter he still plans to play again and has been doing individual training since November to prove his fitness. I sort of suspect he was waiting for a big club to panic sign a free agent forward in an injury crisis for big £££ and it never happened. Hopefully he takes the best opportunity that presents this summer.
     
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  16. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    The only England player to score for every England level he possibly could (U16-seniors) and then go on to score in a WC finals, Euro finals and Olympic finals.

    We lost a core group of outfield talent that at least some should still be part of our set up now. You can also add Wilshere to the list.
     
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  17. roverman

    roverman Member+

    Dec 22, 2001
    Sturridge had the talent to go to the top. Technically excellent good football brain but injuries ruined his career. At Liverpool he was unplayable
     
  18. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
    Depending on how long you want to make the list:
    Danny Rose, 30yo, capped at every level from U16 to senior, just released by Tottenham.
    Micah Richards, 32yo, England debut at 18, retired at 30.
    Tom Cleverly, 31yo, last England cap at 23, no one ever really thought he was all that did they?

    Plus Joe Hart fell off a cliff young for a goalkeeper. He's 34 and half the teams in this summers Euros are taking a number 1 aged 32-35.
     
  19. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Been noticing quite a lot of International games between Nations from U18-U21 level so it feels slightly disappointing that we haven’t been involved whatsoever during this period. Maybe due to Covid restrictions but not sure but still, thought it might be worthwhile to get Squads together for some games in preparation for the next cycle.
     
  20. itfcjoe

    itfcjoe Member+

    Oct 8, 2014
    Club:
    Ipswich Town FC
    Makes you realise how much better our Umbro kits were compared to the Nike ones
     
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  21. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
     
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  22. Garibaldi11

    Garibaldi11 Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Something seems to be brewing with Valentino Livramento. First linked with Milan and now Aston Villa are keen.
     
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  23. ChristianSur

    ChristianSur Member+

    May 5, 2015
    Club:
    Sheffield Wednesday FC
    Can understand why he might want to leave. He's a very good young player with a very good young player ahead of him.
     
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  24. WeekendSleeper

    Derby County
    England
    Apr 2, 2021
    Potentially two if they buy Hakimi as well
     
  25. Garibaldi11

    Garibaldi11 Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Something about WBA and trying to get their young talent through that just doesn't work.

    Much was spoken at the beginning losing Jerome Sinclair, Yan Dhanda and more recently Izzy Brown and Morgan Rogers but it is easy to see why they did move looking back.

    Probably only Saido Berahino and Now Dara O'Shea has got through and had a sustained run in the team.

    Now only this off-season Kyle Edwards, Rekeem Harper and Sam Field will all leave.

     
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